SL = Dr. Scott Lively;
Bill Wiesner (TCFamily.org Founder) Show #1
LOCAL INFO Intro
Introduction & opening prayer by Pastor Peter
Dr. and Pastor Scott Lively: Good evening
Who is here Pro-family & Pro-gay?
- Q1: Who is here representing the Pro-Family
side? A1: Everybody. Q2: who is here representing the pro-“gay”
side? A2: nobody. Comment: “Isn’t it amazing how when you want
them to show up [to debate] they don’t show up; when you don’t want
them to show up, they come out with picket signs and rocks.”
- Talk about my background -- so you will know
that I have no authority to throw rocks:
- Dad's mental illness
- Reading books -- ALWAYS
- My 1st Drink & marijuana
- Almost 16 Dad had final breakdown
- On my own at age 16 -- LONG hair
- Beg for money on street corners
- Feb 1st 1986 – everything changed.
- Picked up while hitch hiking by alcoholics,
homosexuals, and born again Christians.
- Raised as a Catholic
- Knew that if I became a Christian, I would
have to change.
- 2 stages of change: 1st diversion therapy; 2nd
became a Christian
- Was a handyman - could not hold a regular job.
- I drank a beer after being dry for 9 months. I
felt terrible, so I prayed: “Jesus, if you are real, come into my
heart; nothing happened that second, but …”
- Then I went out & got smashed drunk.
- In an alcohol treatment center within 2 weeks,
knelt down in a room and became a Christian; healed immediately
[from drugs & alcohol].
- Wife still separated
- Former drug dealer drove up at an
intersection; he smiled -- I'm a Christian now!
- Mark asked: How come you're not going to
- To a 4-square charismatic church
- Felt completely at home; did not miss a Sunday
service for 5 years.
- Went back to his wife, she accepted
- THE POWER OF GOD TO TRANSFORM A LIFE!
- Law degree, Pastor, written 5 books, visited
40 countries & ministered in 30 of them
- A miraculous transformation!
- I still have an addictive personality, but I'm
addicted to activism now!
- Why did I get that miraculous deliverance and
other people did not?
- I think that the principle of surrender
is what it's all about;
- Evangelism is persuading someone to answer the
knock (of Jesus) on their door (Rev 3:20)
- Once HE begins that work in you, He is
faithful to complete it!
- All the dust is swept under the rug; what
about that closet down the hall; what about that room in the attic?
Jesus will not push past you. He will only go into the rooms of your
house that you invite Him into.
- When you SURRENDER to Him, you're
basically giving him permission to take the whole house.
- You can "accept Christ" without surrendering
- 1Cor 6: 9&11 - dealing with homosexuality -
It's just another challenge that people have.
- I was walking & praying, and the Lord gave me
the answer to "What is the purpose of life?
- "The purpose of life is to be conformed
into the character of Jesus Christ through a life-long series of
challenges uniquely designed for each person by God himself."
That's it right there.
- Now some people cooperate with Him, and the
process goes pretty fast; some people rebel against Him, and the
process can even go in the reverse direction.
- Rom 8:28 - "All things work together for good
to those who love God and who are called according to HIS purposes."
- It's a CONDITIONAL promise.
- (1) If you love Him, and (2) If you are
called according to HIS purposes, then everything that happened
to you, or everything that ever will happen to you, He is going to
turn to your good.
- No matter what the devil has done.
- No matter what you were born with, or happens
to you, or you do, God is going to turn that thing to your good.
- How do you know if you are under Romans 8:28?
- It's how you talk about the worse things that
ever happen to you.
- Let's say you were molested as a child, and
you use that as an adult to say that "I can't do this, because 'I'm
- The person who is under Romans 8:28 actually
is using that as the heart of their testimony.
- The thing that the devil uses the most to
destroy me with is the part of my testimony that is the strongest;
it shows the power of God.
- God turned it all around. God has turned what
the devil intended for evil to good.
- Nobody gets out of this life without
challenges, and they come in every kind of form: born with
afflictions; dropped by their mother; get a disease; car accident;
run over a child accidently; some people get raped; some people
commit a rape; some people end up as alcoholics and drug addicts;
- ... And some people are afflicted with
same-sex-attraction. In other words they desire to have
sexual relations with somebody that their bodies are not designed to
be compatible with -- and that is their challenge. It's no
different than anybody else’s challenge, except that it's unique to
them, and God picked out that challenge for them.
- 1 Cor 6:9-11 is the most hopeful verse
in the Scripture dealing with homosexuality -- I call it the
you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of
God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor
idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor
thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor
revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of
God. 11 And
such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified,
but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the
Spirit of our God.
- I’m on that list – I was a drunkard.
And I’m on the last verse of that passage too: “Such WAS I.
But I have been washed & sanctified.
- What this passage also shows us is that there
were people who overcame homosexuality by the Spirit of Jesus Christ
at the beginning of the Church.
- Anyway, that’s my heart: I want you to see
that from the beginning. I am not sitting in judgment on anyone.
I do not consider myself to be a better person than people who are
struggling with any other challenge that God gives people to have to
- Frankly, I also believe in my theology that
God gives us the right to make choices that are outside of His
- And I think the Founding Fathers established a
country where we are expected to extend reasonable tolerance to
people who disagree with us … kind of a libertarian sort of
- … Freedom within biblical parameters –
that’s what ordered liberty is.
- Narrow is the way that leads to salvation and
broad is the way that leads to destruction; the narrow way is not a
razor blade. It has breadth to it.
- When it says “Broad is the way that leads to
destruction, it’s a path that has no boundaries – that there is no
order to it. The devil is always working to bring chaos out of
order, and the broad path is a picture of his path.
- The width of the path is [Law-Justice <----
- OUTSIDE the path is LEGALISM on one side to
LICENCE on the other side.
sexually unrestrained; lascivious; libertine; lewd.
unrestrained by law or general morality; lawless; immoral.
going beyond customary or proper bounds or limits; disregarding
- LIBERTY is the freedom to choose where
inside the boundaries that God created that you want to be.
- What’s being presented today is really
- When God created the Universe in Genesis 1:1
He established ORDER.
- Right out of the gate in Genesis 1:27, God
said “I created you in my image, Male & Female – two complementary
halves of one whole.
- Then in Genesis 2:24 He says, “Thus shall a
man leave his family and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become
- That’s the Biblical “One Flesh” paradigm –
that’s what God established for sexuality. That’s the design of
Natural Family, Natural Marriage, Natural Sexuality.
- Sex is like fire: if you don’t keep it
contained where it belongs, it will burn up everything in your life.
- If you don’t keep it contained within the
structure that it belongs in, it will burn up everything that you
- When a husband or wife is unfaithful, it burns
up their whole life: their marriage is now gone; their children are
shamed; the house is broken.
- Order versus Chaos.
- ALL sex outside of marriage (traditional)
is condemned; it’s illegitimate; it’s destructive.
- If you do things the way God said to do them,
you always get good results; if you deviate from what God said to
do, you always get bad results. It’s just that simple.
- When I was in law school, I worked for awhile
for a fairly famous Rabbi named Samuel Dresner, who was dying
of throat cancer. He read my book “The Pink Swastika”, the History
Book of homosexuality in Germany.
- The last book that he wanted to put out in his
life was: “The Case against Homosexuality: The Jewish View.”
He hired me to rewrite his book for him.
- Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed by fire for
the sin of sodomy as an example of what happens to the ungodly.
- Then immediately after that, Lot, who had just
been rescued from Sodom, in a drunken state committed incest with
his two daughters, and out of that two tribes were born: Moab & the
tribe of Ammon -- both of which are forever after a thorn in the
side of Israel. I.e. a Cautionary tale: there are always
consequences to sin.
- Solomon was the ultimate polygamist: he had
300 wives and 700 concubines. Solomon actually turned away from
God, and set up the worship of Moloch on the hills surrounding
Jerusalem. They sacrificed babies; they also engaged in sexual
perversion of every kind in the High Places. They did this in
so-called Sacred Oak Groves – i.e. modern day “kissing under the
mistletoe” – a faint echo of a sexual perversion practice from
Old Testament times. Solomon’s worship of Moloch lasted for 300
years. Solomon was the ultimate polygamist: it was his wives that
actually got him to do that. These again are cautionary tales in
the Scripture of things we’re not supposed to do.
- If we followed God’s sexual laws we would
not have: sexually transmitted diseases; the negative social
indicators we talk about.
- This entire culture war that we are dealing
with comes down to a conflict of world views about sexuality.
- On the one hand is the worldview that says
sex belongs inside of marriage; it’s not allowed outside of
marriage; and that society has an obligation to discourage sex
outside of marriage.
- The alternative to that having anything
goes sexuality – called sexual freedom.
- That’s the whole The marriage model
requires restriction; it requires protection. Point of marriage
itself. “Marriage” is just a cocoon that protects what’s inside it;
marriage is not what’s important; it’s what’s inside marriage that’s
important – man and a woman who will become one flesh, according to
the Standard of God. They are complementary halves of one whole.
They become whole; they become one flesh.
- A Marriage is there as a social and political
and legal institution to seal them in that – to protect them from
the influences from the outside that would otherwise tear them
- We had a marriage-centered society here in
Maryland. There was a Christian consensus for a very long time,
until a couple of things happened in Europe.
-  Darwin came out with something
called EVOLUTION (which he didn’t invent, it actually goes
all the way back to the Greeks.) He presented an alternative to
the Creation Story of the Bible.
- And see that’s what the Devil does –
everything that God has created, the devil has created a counterfeit
alternative to it. And we see that most clearly in CREATION /
- And once he (the Devil) introduced evolution,
people who wanted to come outside under the accountability to God,
had the ability to do it, and be able to point to something that
seemed logical that gave them a basis for rejecting the Bible.
- Then came  Carl Marx. He built his
philosophy on the foundation of evolution – saying that Society
is Evolving too, toward this future where everything is going
to be perfect. (… It’s a utopian fantasy that doesn’t
work.) But he said the problem is that we have all these
capitalists – all this inequity, all these things in the way that
are messing with the system, and we’re never going to get to the
place until those things are out of the way.
- And the only way really to do that is to
destroy everything, and to rebuild it, according to the better way
that we know (according to this utopian fantasy.)
- Marxism set out to do this according to
- But there came after a while a school of
Marxism called “The Frankfort School” in Germany, with the idea
that actually if your goal is to tear down a society or a
civilization so that you could rebuild it again, the much better
way to do that is with MORALITY: if you can break the morality of
the society, it collapses much easier.
- That’s what the sin of Balaam was – he
was asked to curse the Israelites by King Balak, but he could not
curse God’s people.
- But then he tells Balak: I can’t curse God’s
people, but let me tell you how you can take them down: introduce
sexual perversion to them. Introduce foreign wives to
them – that’s what that meant. (That’s an idiom -- The foreign
wives are bringing in “sexual freedom,” the idea of sex
outside the boundaries.)
- And that’s what happened, and the Israelites
collapsed. That’s what the Frankfurt School and people like
HERBERT MARCUSE recognized by demonic influence – took the
principal and applied it, and developed the idea of taking down
society through  SEXUAL FREEDOM; through  RADICAL
FEMINISM was another aspect; and  RACIAL CONFLICT
(promotion of race wars) – THOSE THREE ELEMENTS.
- And they came over to the United States –
Herbert Marcuse was the first one (1934) – a very influential man.
These guys came and they were operating at the highest levels. And
they began teaching this stuff.
- And MARCUSE said (even though he wasn’t
a homosexual), he said that homosexuals were THE BEST people to
do this because they already want to have a life that fits this
description. They want to have sexual relations outside the
boundaries in a culture where that’s accepted. So he worked very
closely on promoting so-called “gay rights.”
- Now the so-called “FATHER OF GAY RIGHTS”
was a man named HARRY HAY. Harry Hay had been a teacher of
Marxist theory for 18 years before he started THE MATTACHINE
SOCIETY. And he took all those tactics that he’d learned
studying Marxism – how to subvert a society – and he formed (this is
right out of his biography), he formed secret cell groups of “gay
activists” with the purpose of changing the moral culture of
- Now in the 1940’s when he was starting to do
this, homosexuality was illegal throughout the entire world. The
only place that it wasn’t illegal was Sweden, which had
decriminalized sodomy in 1938, and so they knew that they couldn’t
come out at that point and start saying “gay is good” and you all
ought to be trying it. And if Harry Hay had come forward and said,
“I’m going down to the Elementary School and I’m going to start
teaching these kids that gay is good and they ought to try it. Then
if he had survived the walk to the elementary school, then they
would have put him in jail.
- But you know that’s actually the policy now in
California for years – mandatory pro-gay curriculum at every grade
level K-12, for two years now. So look how much has changed in just
- See this has to be a spiritual phenomenon.
Just think about it. In just 50 years this tiny group of people who
represents only two or three percent of the population, has gone
from being – whose lifestyle was illegal everywhere – now this group
of people has more power in the legislatures and the courtrooms of
the world than the Christian Church does. This has never
happened before in the history of the world. And it shows you
that it’s probably not just a spiritual phenomenon; in my view
it’s end-times phenomenon. Alright? Nothing has ever grown like
this. There’s never been a cancer, a social cancer that has ever
grown this fast – and assault, and attack on the Biblical World
View. That there is not, not Darwinism; not Islam; not Marxism;
nothing. And so here we are faced with it today. And a large part
of the impetus for it, a large power comes from perfecting a system
of transformation here in the United States. What Harry Hay did,
instead of coming out and saying, “Gay is good and you all ought to
try it, is he began to promote HETEROSEXUAL PROMISCUITY in
order to get everybody else dirty in the deal, right, so that we
would all, so that the heterosexual people would all embrace sexual
freedom, and begin to live that way, so that when homosexuals are
ready to come out of the closet, their would be less resistance to
them doing so, and that’s what actually happened over time.
- And the first “gay activist” was Alfred
Kinsey ……[End of Show #1 Part 1of
Closing Show credits