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Notes taken on Dr. Scott Lively’s talk Friday night July 26th, 2013

In Traverse City, MI., entitled “Scott Lively Testimony +

The Secular History of the ‘Gay Rights’ Movement” (Part 1 of 2)


Show #1

Starts at 00:00:00 also

Scott Lively part ends at 55:45:03, just after Scott says, “The very first gay activist was Alfred Kinsey.”


Note:  The notes may help give you a taste of Dr. Lively’s great teaching, but their are large gaps where no notes were taken.  You will do best to print out the Show Notes for a partial guide, but then watch the entire Scott Lively shows to truly understand the Secular History of the ‘Gay Rights’ Movement.



BW   = Bill Wiesner

PPM = Pastor Peter Moon; 

SL = Dr. Scott Lively; 





What Shared



Bill Wiesner (TCFamily.org Founder) Show #1 LOCAL INFO Intro



Introduction & opening prayer by Pastor Peter Moon.



Dr. and Pastor Scott Lively:  Good evening everybody.



Who is here Pro-family & Pro-gay?

  • Q1: Who is here representing the Pro-Family side?  A1: Everybody.  Q2: who is here representing the pro-“gay” side?  A2: nobody.  Comment: “Isn’t it amazing how when you want them to show up [to debate] they don’t show up; when you don’t want them to show up, they come out with picket signs and rocks.”
  • Talk about my background -- so you will know that I have no authority to throw rocks:
  • Dad's mental illness
  • Reading books -- ALWAYS
  • My 1st Drink & marijuana
  • Almost 16 Dad had final breakdown
  • On my own at age 16 -- LONG hair
  • Beg for money on street corners
  • Feb 1st 1986 – everything changed.
  • Picked up while hitch hiking by alcoholics, homosexuals, and born again Christians.
  • Raised as a Catholic
  • Knew that if I became a Christian, I would have to change.
  • 2 stages of change: 1st diversion therapy; 2nd became a Christian
  • Was a handyman - could not hold a regular job.




  • I drank a beer after being dry for 9 months. I felt terrible, so I prayed: “Jesus, if you are real, come into my heart; nothing happened that second, but …”
  • Then I went out & got smashed drunk.
  • In an alcohol treatment center within 2 weeks, knelt down in a room and became a Christian; healed immediately [from drugs & alcohol].
  • Wife still separated
  • Former drug dealer drove up at an intersection; he smiled -- I'm a Christian now!
  • Mark asked: How come you're not going to church?
  • To a 4-square charismatic church
  • Felt completely at home; did not miss a Sunday service for 5 years.
  • Went back to his wife, she accepted
  • Law degree, Pastor, written 5 books, visited 40 countries & ministered in 30 of them
  • A miraculous transformation!
  • I still have an addictive personality, but I'm addicted to activism now!




  • Why did I get that miraculous deliverance and other people did not?
  • I think that the principle of surrender is what it's all about;
  • Evangelism is persuading someone to answer the knock (of Jesus) on their door (Rev 3:20)
  • Once HE begins that work in you, He is faithful to complete it!
  • All the dust is swept under the rug; what about that closet down the hall; what about that room in the attic? Jesus will not push past you. He will only go into the rooms of your house that you invite Him into.
  • When you SURRENDER to Him, you're basically giving him permission to take the whole house.
  • You can "accept Christ" without surrendering to Him.
  • 1Cor 6: 9&11 - dealing with homosexuality - It's just another challenge that people have.
  • I was walking & praying, and the Lord gave me the answer to "What is the purpose of life?
  • "The purpose of life is to be conformed into the character of Jesus Christ through a life-long series of challenges uniquely designed for each person by God himself." That's it right there.




  • Now some people cooperate with Him, and the process goes pretty fast; some people rebel against Him, and the process can even go in the reverse direction.
  • Rom 8:28 - "All things work together for good to those who love God and who are called according to HIS purposes."
  • It's a CONDITIONAL promise.
  • (1) If you love Him, and (2) If you are called according to HIS purposes, then everything that happened to you, or everything that ever will happen to you, He is going to turn to your good.
  • No matter what the devil has done.
  • No matter what you were born with, or happens to you, or you do, God is going to turn that thing to your good.
  • How do you know if you are under Romans 8:28?
  • It's how you talk about the worse things that ever happen to you.
  • Let's say you were molested as a child, and you use that as an adult to say that "I can't do this, because 'I'm broken.'"
  • The person who is under Romans 8:28 actually is using that as the heart of their testimony.
  • The thing that the devil uses the most to destroy me with is the part of my testimony that is the strongest; it shows the power of God.
  • God turned it all around. God has turned what the devil intended for evil to good.
  • Nobody gets out of this life without challenges, and they come in every kind of form: born with afflictions; dropped by their mother; get a disease; car accident; run over a child accidently; some people get raped; some people commit a rape; some people end up as alcoholics and drug addicts;
  • ... And some people are afflicted with same-sex-attraction. In other words they desire to have sexual relations with somebody that their bodies are not designed to be compatible with -- and that is their challenge.  It's no different than anybody else’s challenge, except that it's unique to them, and God picked out that challenge for them.




  • 1 Cor 6:9-11 is the most hopeful verse in the Scripture dealing with homosexuality -- I call it the ex-gay passage.
  • Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
  • I’m on that list – I was a drunkard. And I’m on the last verse of that passage too: “Such WAS I.  But I have been washed & sanctified.
  • What this passage also shows us is that there were people who overcame homosexuality by the Spirit of Jesus Christ at the beginning of the Church.
  • Anyway, that’s my heart: I want you to see that from the beginning.  I am not sitting in judgment on anyone.  I do not consider myself to be a better person than people who are struggling with any other challenge that God gives people to have to struggle with.   




  • Frankly, I also believe in my theology that God gives us the right to make choices that are outside of His will. 
  • And I think the Founding Fathers established a country where we are expected to extend reasonable tolerance to people who disagree with us … kind of a libertarian sort of structure
  • Freedom within biblical parameters – that’s what ordered liberty is.
  • Narrow is the way that leads to salvation and broad is the way that leads to destruction; the narrow way is not a razor blade. It has breadth to it.
  • When it says “Broad is the way that leads to destruction, it’s a path that has no boundaries – that there is no order to it.  The devil is always working to bring chaos out of order, and the broad path is a picture of his path.
  • The width of the path is [Law-Justice  <---- >  Grace];
  • OUTSIDE the path is LEGALISM on one side to LICENCE on the other side.

li·cen·tious·ness, noun


sexually unrestrained; lascivious; libertine; lewd.


unrestrained by law or general morality; lawless; immoral.


going beyond customary or proper bounds or limits; disregarding rules.

  • LIBERTY is the freedom to choose where inside the boundaries that God created that you want to be.
  • What’s being presented today is really moral anarchy.
  • When God created the Universe in Genesis 1:1 He established ORDER.
  • Right out of the gate in Genesis 1:27, God said “I created you in my image, Male & Female – two complementary halves of one whole.
  • Then in Genesis 2:24 He says, “Thus shall a man leave his family and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”
  • That’s the Biblical “One Flesh” paradigm – that’s what God established for sexuality.  That’s the design of Natural Family, Natural Marriage, Natural Sexuality.
  • Sex is like fire: if you don’t keep it contained where it belongs, it will burn up everything in your life.
  • If you don’t keep it contained within the structure that it belongs in, it will burn up everything that you love.
  • When a husband or wife is unfaithful, it burns up their whole life: their marriage is now gone; their children are shamed; the house is broken.
  • Order versus Chaos.
  • ALL sex outside of marriage (traditional) is condemned; it’s illegitimate; it’s destructive.
  • If you do things the way God said to do them, you always get good results; if you deviate from what God said to do, you always get bad results.  It’s just that simple.




  • When I was in law school, I worked for awhile for a fairly famous Rabbi named Samuel Dresner, who was dying of throat cancer. He read my book “The Pink Swastika”, the History Book of homosexuality in Germany.
  • The last book that he wanted to put out in his life was: “The Case against Homosexuality: The Jewish View.”  He hired me to rewrite his book for him.
  • Sodom & Gomorrah were destroyed by fire for the sin of sodomy as an example of what happens to the ungodly.
  • Then immediately after that, Lot, who had just been rescued from Sodom,  in a drunken state committed incest with his two daughters, and out of that two tribes were born: Moab & the tribe of Ammon -- both of which are forever after a thorn in the side of Israel.  I.e. a Cautionary tale: there are always consequences to sin.
  • Solomon was the ultimate polygamist: he had 300 wives and 700 concubines.  Solomon actually turned away from God, and set up the worship of Moloch on the hills surrounding Jerusalem.  They sacrificed babies; they also engaged in sexual perversion of every kind in the High Places.  They did this in so-called Sacred Oak Groves – i.e. modern day “kissing under the mistletoe” – a faint echo of a sexual perversion practice from Old Testament times.  Solomon’s worship of Moloch lasted for 300 years.  Solomon was the ultimate polygamist: it was his wives that actually got him to do that.  These again are cautionary tales in the Scripture of things we’re not supposed to do.
  • If we followed God’s sexual laws we would not have: sexually transmitted diseases; the negative social indicators we talk about.
  • This entire culture war that we are dealing with comes down to a conflict of world views about sexuality. 
  • On the one hand is the worldview that says sex belongs inside of marriage; it’s not allowed outside of marriage; and that society has an obligation to discourage sex outside of marriage.
  • The alternative to that having anything goes sexuality – called sexual freedom.
  • That’s the whole The marriage model requires restriction; it requires protection.  Point of marriage itself.  “Marriage” is just a cocoon that protects what’s inside it; marriage is not what’s important; it’s what’s inside marriage that’s important – man and a woman who will become one flesh, according to the Standard of God.  They are complementary halves of one whole.  They become whole; they become one flesh.
  • A Marriage is there as a social and political and legal institution to seal them in that – to protect them from the influences from the outside that would otherwise tear them apart.
  • We had a marriage-centered society here in Maryland.  There was a Christian consensus for a very long time, until a couple of things happened in Europe. 
  • [1] Darwin came out with something called EVOLUTION (which he didn’t invent, it actually goes all the way back to the Greeks.)  He presented an alternative to the Creation Story of the Bible.
  • And see that’s what the Devil does – everything that God has created, the devil has created a counterfeit alternative to it.  And we see that most clearly in CREATION  /  EVOLUTION.
  • And once he (the Devil) introduced evolution, people who wanted to come outside under the accountability to God, had the ability to do it, and be able to point to something that seemed logical that gave them a basis for rejecting the Bible.
  • Then came [2] Carl Marx.  He built his philosophy on the foundation of evolution – saying that Society is Evolving too, toward this future where everything is going to be perfect.  (… It’s a utopian fantasy that doesn’t work.)  But he said the problem is that we have all these capitalists – all this inequity, all these things in the way that are messing with the system, and we’re never going to get to the place until those things are out of the way.
  • And the only way really to do that is to destroy everything, and to rebuild it, according to the better way that we know (according to this utopian fantasy.) 




  • Marxism set out to do this according to economic emphasis.
  • But there came after a while a school of Marxism called “The Frankfort School” in Germany, with the idea that actually if your goal is to tear down a society or a civilization so that you could rebuild it again, the much better way to do that is with MORALITY: if you can break the morality of the society, it collapses much easier.
  • That’s what the sin of Balaam was – he was asked to curse the Israelites by King Balak, but he could not curse God’s people. 
  • But then he tells Balak: I can’t curse God’s people, but let me tell you how you can take them down: introduce sexual perversion to them.  Introduce foreign wives to them – that’s what that meant. (That’s an idiom -- The foreign wives are bringing in “sexual freedom,” the idea of sex outside the boundaries.
  • And that’s what happened, and the Israelites collapsed.  That’s what the Frankfurt School and people like HERBERT MARCUSE recognized by demonic influence – took the principal and applied it, and developed the idea of taking down society through [1] SEXUAL FREEDOM; through [2] RADICAL FEMINISM was another aspect; and [3] RACIAL CONFLICT (promotion of race wars) – THOSE THREE ELEMENTS. 
  • And they came over to the United States – Herbert Marcuse was the first one (1934) – a very influential man.  These guys came and they were operating at the highest levels. And they began teaching this stuff. 
  • And MARCUSE said (even though he wasn’t a homosexual), he said that homosexuals were THE BEST people to do this because they already want to have a life that fits this description.  They want to have sexual relations outside the boundaries in a culture where that’s accepted.  So he worked very closely on promoting so-called “gay rights.”
  • Now the so-called “FATHER OF GAY RIGHTS” was a man named HARRY HAY.  Harry Hay had been a teacher of Marxist theory for 18 years before he started THE MATTACHINE SOCIETY.  And he took all those tactics that he’d learned studying Marxism – how to subvert a society – and he formed (this is right out of his biography), he formed secret cell groups of “gay activists” with the purpose of changing the moral culture of America.
  • Now in the 1940’s when he was starting to do this, homosexuality was illegal throughout the entire world.  The only place that it wasn’t illegal was Sweden, which had decriminalized sodomy in 1938, and so they knew that they couldn’t come out at that point and start saying “gay is good” and you all ought to be trying it.  And if Harry Hay had come forward and said, “I’m going down to the Elementary School and I’m going to start teaching these kids that gay is good and they ought to try it.  Then if he had survived the walk to the elementary school, then they would have put him in jail.
  • But you know that’s actually the policy now in California for years – mandatory pro-gay curriculum at every grade level K-12, for two years now.  So look how much has changed in just 50 years. 
  • See this has to be a spiritual phenomenon.  Just think about it.  In just 50 years this tiny group of people who represents only two or three percent of the population, has gone from being – whose lifestyle was illegal everywhere – now this group of people has more power in the legislatures and the courtrooms of the world than the Christian Church does.  This has never happened before in the history of the world.  And it shows you that it’s probably not just a spiritual phenomenon; in my view it’s end-times phenomenon.  Alright? Nothing has ever grown like this.  There’s never been a cancer, a social cancer that has ever grown this fast – and assault, and attack on the Biblical World View.  That there is not, not Darwinism; not Islam; not Marxism; nothing.  And so here we are faced with it today.  And a large part of the impetus for it, a large power comes from perfecting a system of transformation here in the United States.  What Harry Hay did, instead of coming out and saying, “Gay is good and you all ought to try it, is he began to promote HETEROSEXUAL PROMISCUITY in order to get everybody else dirty in the deal, right, so that we would all, so that the heterosexual people would all embrace sexual freedom, and begin to live that way, so that when homosexuals are ready to come out of the closet, their would be less resistance to them doing so, and that’s what actually happened over time. 
  • And the first “gay activist” was Alfred Kinsey ……[End of Show #1 Part 1of 2 NOTES]




Closing Show credits





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