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Notes/Transcription taken on Dr. Scott Lively’s Show #3


Dr. Lively’s Saturday morning July 27th, 2013 Talk in Traverse City, MI., was delivered to a group of Northwest Michigan PASTORS and Christian Leaders.


The Talk had 2 major focuses:


From Genesis to Revelation:

Homosexuality as The Extreme Example

of Rebellion on the Verge of Judgment




Homosexualists Have Now Defeated

ALL Secular Institutions –

Now They Take Aim at the Church


(Part 1 of 2)



Talk to NW Michigan PASTORS   (Part 1 of 2)


Show #3  Table of Contents

(Watch all the Dr. Scott Lively Traverse City 2013 DEBATE/Conference Shows at www.TCFamily.org):


(00min:00sec) – (03min:57sec) : TCFamily’s Northwest Michigan LOCAL INFO Introduction.


(03:57 – 54:33):  Dr. Scott Lively’s Talk to Northwest Michigan Pastors: Part 1of 2.


(54:33 – 59:46):  TCFamily LOCAL INFO – 22 local audio tapes recorded at the Michael Moore 2013 Traverse City Film Festival.




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Dr. Scott Lively July 2003 Traverse City, MI DEBATE / CONFERENCE:

SHOW #3 – Highlights Shared:

  •  (Starting at 00 min : 00 seconds)   www.TCFamily.org Founder Bill Wiesner shares LOCAL NORTHWEST MICHIGAN Info, and previews the Twenty-Two Audio Clips recorded at the Michael Moore 2013 Traverse City Film Festival, which play during the last 6 minutes of this hour long show.
  •  We took our 4x8 Foot “Truth Academy about Homosexuality” sign downtown in Traverse City and recorded the very vocal interactions, especially with two women in particular who tried (unsuccessfully) to shout me off the streets.


Two ACTION ITEMS requested:

(1)    Watch EACH & EVERY new “Truth Academy about Homosexuality”, now at very convenient new times.  Also contact ALL your friends & family.  The NEW SHOW TIMES on Charter Cable (Channels 97 or 992) are:

·        Sun     11 a.m.

·        Tues     5 p.m.

·        Thurs   6 p.m.


(2)    And contact every TEACHER that you know or that your children have.  They are GATEKEEPERS to protect your children 7 HOURS MONDAY – FRIDAY.

·        WE DESERVE TO KNOW where they stand on the issue of the promotion of homosexuality to our children in our TCAPS school district.

·        We want to give the TEACHERS evidence to show the grave danger in promoting this behavior to the students, so that they can stand and defend the students from the current TCAPS School Board which is promoting this behavior.  (To see how, view the last 20 minutes of our Season 2 Week 1 Truth Academy About Homosexuality Show at www.TCFamily.org.)


(Watch all the Dr. Scott Lively Traverse City 2013 DEBATE/Conference Shows at www.TCFamily.org):


  • (03:57)  1ST INTRODUCTION to Dr. Scott Lively’s Talk (SHOW #3) by NW Michigan pro-family activist and Tea Party leader Matthew Schoech
  • (05:11)  OPENING PRAYER  by Pastor Peter Moon from Harbor Light Christian Center in Traverse City.
  • (06:10)  2ND INTRODUCTION by Matthew Schoech
  • (07:53)  (Scott Lively from here to the 54min33sec mark)  Describes a typical seminar weekend
  • (08:37)  Describes his & his wife’s inner city mission in Springfield, Massachusetts: an example of redemptive living right in the middle of “the hood.”
  • (09:33)  “Holy Grounds Coffee House” ministry:
  • (10:20)  Bringing together believers from across the spectrum …
  • (10:31)  The “Trust Jesus” Campaign
  • (11:22)  50-City Tour of the former Soviet Union promoting the pro-family topics we will be discussing today.
  • (12:15)  The Spirit that is behind the homosexual movement … is the spirit that is revealed in Genesis chapter 19 in the story of Sodom & Gomorrah (a spirit of implacable militancy.)
  • (15:21)  A relentless spirit of bringing chaos out of order …
  • (15:28)  Everything that God has given us in this universe is “ordered” (Gen 1:1) …
  • (16:16)  Man created in God’s own image – male & female … two complementary halves of one whole, designed to unite together as one flesh.  And then in Gen 2:24:  “That therefore shall a man leave his family and cleave unto his wife, and they shall become one flesh.”  That’s the biblical model of sexuality, and everything outside of that model is rejected and illegitimate … all sex outside of marriage is a crime according to God.
  • (17:00)  Watered down perspective now in America in main stream Christianity – now very tolerant of fornication and divorce … becoming more tolerant of behaviors that go further and further outside the standard that God gave us.
  • (17:46)  The outer edge of rebellion, according to the Bible, is homosexuality
  • (18:22)  Leviticus 18 is the list of sins [sexual sins] that God is explaining to the Hebrews that caused the Canaanites to be expelled from the land … “that caused the land to vomit out its inhabitants.”
  • (18:56)  It deals with various different forms of INCEST; then it comes down to CHILD SACRIFICE
  • (19:04)  Then in Leviticus 18: 22, it introduces the word “abomination” for the first time … when it lists the sin of HOMOSEXUALITY.
  • (19:38)  This is the outer edge of rebellion against God.  … Then verse 23 lists BESTIALITY (sex with an animal). 
  • (19:47)  Classically, those two verses are the foundation of the common law dealing with sodomy, forever, up until the modern times (the modern age) when Alfred Kinsey [1940’s and 50’s] introduced the different standard that we are now living under.
  • (20:04)  … Up until the modern age, sodomy was defined – not as anal or oral sex – but as “sex between two people of the same gender, or sex with an animal.”
  • (20:21)  Thomas Jefferson … wrote a “restatement of the law” … said that of the two, homosexuality is the greater crime, because bestiality doesn’t spread.
  • (21:20) All sin keeps you out of the presence of God … because God is perfectly pure and holy …
  • (22:19)  But in dealing with the 2nd Commandment [1st = Love God; 2nd = Love neighbor], sin as it relates to human society, sin has different levels of severity.  That’s why there’s capital punishment for murder, and there’s no punishment for gossip: but they’re both sins.
  • (22:45)  Homosexuality ranks up at the very top of the list of the most egregious sins dealing with interactions between human beings … [the 2nd Great Commandment: love your neighbor as yourself.]
  • (23:27)  Looking through the Scripture, it’s the only sin that’s associated with the rain of fire and brimstone … [Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen 19:1-29)] …  It’s the only time in the Scriptures that that has happened. … Set forth as an example forever in Jude verse 7 as an example of what happens to the ungodly.  It’s also mentioned in 2nd Peter [vv 3-7] that God has destroyed [by Noah’s Flood].
  • (23:57)  The FLOOD was – and we talked about the RAINBOW, which was God’s sign of what? – that is He’s never going to destroy the earth again by water.  And now we have this [homosexual] movement that has taken as their symbol what? – the Rainbow.  Alright.  Do you think that it’s an accident that the homosexual movement has adopted the rainbow as its symbol?
  • (24:32)  When THE FLOOD came – what the ancient Rabbis say is that the last straw for God was when human beings started WRITING WEDDING SONGS TO HOMOSEXUAL MARRIAGE – that’s what they say was the last straw for God.  Now it doesn’t say that explicitly in the Scripture; you can’t read that directly in the Bible.  But, if you look at what the Bible does say about the Time of Noah, it’s very clear.  There’s only two real clues that you get: (1) That they were marrying and giving in marriage; and (2) That the thoughts of their heart were only evil continually.  So what do people do in terms of marriage, when the thoughts of their heart is only evil?  You’re talking about the most perverse form of marriage you can have.  Just do the math: one plus one has got to equal two.  And of course that’s probably what the Rabbis looking at the ancient Hebrew – that’s probably why they concluded what they did.  So what seems to have happened … is that sin progressed, that the end chapter, the final aspect of the disintegration of the pre-flood world was when they reached the level when they started doing homosexual marriage.
  • (25:42)  And then look at what happens in the Bible after that.  You’ve got Ham who does something to his father, or it’s actually his son Canaan does something to his grandfather.  What is it?  The Flood has happened.  The eight have been saved through the Ark.  The Flood subsides.  They come out.  They start life all over again.  Noah grows a vineyard.  He gets drunk.  And then, Canaan comes in and he does something to him in to his tent.  The Scripture talks and it says that “He saw his nakedness.”  Right?  Well, I mean we’re talking about people that – nakedness is not that big of a deal.  But what nakedness is in the Bible – it’s an idiom for sexual intercourse.  When you look through the Old Testament, it’s always talking about “to uncover someone’s nakedness.”  If a man “uncovers the nakedness of a woman,” then he has committed sexual intercourse with her.  So for Ham to have seen the nakedness of his father has some kind of sexual connotation, which would seem to be homosexuality in some way. 
  • (26;52)  And what does Noah do?  He banishes him.  Do you think he’s going to banish his grandson because he saw him naked?  Come on, right, that’s just foolishness.  Something serious happened there.  And Canaan is then banished from the presence of Noah.  And where does he then go?  Canaan then goes and takes over the territory that is God’s chosen land of all the earth.  Right?  It’s not an accident that Canaan went and took the choicest place, the place that I believe actually was probably the site of the Garden of Eden – that he comes to the Promised Land later, that contained the city that was later to be called Jerusalem, that is the apple of God’s eye – the center of the universe  in dealing with anything that related to prophecy, and that the Holy City.
  • (27:37)  And Canaan then takes over that entire territory.  And what does he do?  He introduces two forms of perversion that forever after define the worst that human beings can do.  Right?  (1) He sets up worship of Molec – and there’s various different names of the Canaanite gods.  But they engage in HUMAN SACRIFICE, and (2) they engage in RAMPID SEXUAL PERVERSION of every kind – that’s what defines them.  And Canaan also sets up several cities: one of them is called SODOM.  Right?  Sodom was a Canaanite city. 
  • (28:16)  So there’s a line – what seems to have happened is that Ham probably was corrupted in the pre-flood world.  Right?  He was living in the culture, just like some of our kids and grandkids, right – even though they may be in Christian homes?  They’re going to the PUBLIC SCHOOL.  Every day all day long they’re being propagandized.  They’re accepting and believing this new, the new normal – that there’s nothing wrong with homosexuality, and you might as well just go ahead and try it.  Right?  And Ham ends up coming into the new world, and basically bringing that sin into the new world.  And his own son then is corrupted by it, and then goes and establishes the most wicked forms of  religion that have ever existed on the face of the earth – and sets up Sodom & Gomorrah.  So a few chapters after The Flood and The Rainbow, you have … God said He was going to destroy the earth twice, right – once by water and then once by fire.  So then he gives the example, right?  He says, ok, this is what it’s going to look like: when I finally destroy it in the end it’s going to look like this: fire and brimstone from the sky.  What’s the sin that’s prevalent at the time that the fires going to come down?  It’s going to be Homosexuality.
  • (29:30)  What did Jesus say about the Second Coming?  It’s going to be like the Days of Noah, right?  And what is happening now that has not existed for 5000 years in the earth?  It’s homosexual marriage.  Never in the history of mankind has homosexual marriage ever been accepted by any culture.  Now there have been individual incidents along the way where there might be a little sect of this here or there where they might sort of put the sanction on homosexual marriage.  The “gays” will talk about those things.  But there’s never been a society – let alone a civilization – that has ever embraced homosexual marriage until today.  So the two times in the history of the world is [1] The time just before the Flood of Noah, and [2] and the time Today.  Now they may have been doing “gay marriage” in Sodom – and why wouldn’t they have?  If everything was corrupted to that extent.  But there’s the example, and then the fire comes down. 
  • (30:24)  Now God uses two witnesses in the Scripture very frequently, right? – the two witnesses that he sent to Sodom; the two witnesses in Revelation.  He also will often use two witnesses in terms of symbols or storiesAnd there’s a second story in the Bible dealing with facts that are very similar to what happened in Sodom.  That’s Judges 19 in the story of the Levite and his concubine were  sojourning through the land of Benjamin.  … And a man comes out of his house and … he says come and stay at my house … don’t stay out in the open.  And why?  As soon as they get him back to the house in with the concubine, all the men show up.  All the Benjamites to rape the Levite.  Right?  Just like it happened in Sodom and Gomorrah.  And this time they come out and they offer the concubine – not the daughter – they offer the concubine as an alternative to raping the Levite.  And this time the predators accept the concubine as a substitute.  And they rape her all night till she’s dead, and leave her on the doorstep.  And when they come out, they take the body, they cut it into 12 pieces, and they send it to the 12 tribes of  Israel as a statement of outrage about the depth of sin  that has happened in the land.  That leads them to civil war.  And the Benjamites are then the subject of attack from all the other tribes.  So once again, homosexuality associated with the most extreme forms of perversion and rebellion, leading to social calamity.  And all the way through the Scripture you have this happening. 
  • (32:18)  Then we get to Solomon.  Solomon, who we’ve all been taught was a wonderful man – the wisest man of all.  He’s been lionized.  Right?  He’s been sugarcoated.  … In the middle of his life toward the later years he married foreign wives.  Some of the 300 wives and 700 concubines were Canaanite women, who then converted him to Canaanite religion and away from worship of God.  And Solomon is the one who set up the worship of Molec around the hills of Jerusalem … And they were actually engaging in human sacrifice, and sexual perversion in the sacred oak groves in the hills around Jerusalem under the leadership of Solomon.  And that lasted for 300 years.  And so we’re talking all of the perversions of the Canaanites are now back in the land because of the man that really had been anointed by God.  God came to him 3 times and said “You can’t do this Solomon.”  And the 3rd time – because he wouldn’t repent – God said I’m going to take the kingdom away from you.  For the sake of your son David, you get to have one tribe, but you’re going to lose all the rest, and that’s what happened.  That’s why you end up with the two houses after that: you have the house of Israel, and you have the house of Judah. 
  • (34:01)  On this whole theme of homosexuality being central to all of this, you then have the Judges and the Kings, and the list of the Kings: the Kings were all measured in terms of whether they are actually doing what God says, or whether they are following the wickedness of their forefathers.  And Josiah, considered the most righteous of all the Kings, is the one actually does what they were told to do in Deuteronomy:  Breaks down the idols; smashes the alters; and he grinds them to dust and pours their dust into the Brook Kidron that runs between the city of Jerusalem and the Mount of Olives.  And a central aspect of that is that Josiah – he broke down the houses of the Sodomites where the women wore hangings for the grove.  And what that is, this was in the Temple complex.  There was the House of the Sodomites where they were engaging in homosexual perversion.  And in that facility, women were weaving these hangings that they would use in the sacred oak groves where they would go and engage in different kinds of sexual perversion.  And so Josiah was identified as the most righteous of the Kings because he actually came the closest, and actually fulfilled what he had been told by God (what they had all been told by God) they were supposed to do when they came into the land. 
  • (35:26)  You jump into the New Testament – right out of the gate you’re dealing with Romans Chapter 1.  And Homosexuality is identified in Romans 1 as THE SIN OF ALL THE SINS GOD … identified.  He listed it as THE SIN that is associated with the reprobate mind.  Romans 1:18-32 it talks about the process of the darkening of the mind because of suppressing the truth; worshiping the creation rather that the Creator, and then being given over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are unseemly.  Men with men, committing what’s an abomination, even the women turning against the natural use to each other, and then all of them receiving in themselves the penalty of their error, which is appropriate.  And then the list, the laundry list of behaviors that are associated with apostasy is then there – it’s like 30 or 40 items: wickedness, maliciousness, gossips, liars, right?  All down. 
  • (36:24)  Remember we were talking about The Two Witnesses?  God uses two witnesses frequently in terms of stories.  Just like Genesis 19 and Judges 19 are two witnesses to a story very similar to each other.  And you also have Romans 1 and 2nd Timothy chapter 3 where it says: In the End Times perilous times will come.  Right?  Men will be lovers of themselves.  Right?  They will be, essentially turn away from God.  And then it lists a laundry list – the only two places in the whole Bible that it does this – it lists the laundry list of the  behaviors associated with apostasy, the examples of apostasy.  So if you overlay those two things together, right, and you say you take those two witnesses together for what is the lesson that they teach, just like the lesson about marrying and giving in marriage, and the thoughts of their heart being only evil continually, God is giving you the two clues.  Just put it together.  One plus one is two:  [1] That in the end times, perilous times will come, and [2] homosexuality IS the evidence of the perilous times.  Right?  Those two things are put together. 
  • (37:39)  And it’s the whole Bible is … all the way to the end.  When you get to the very last mention of homosexuality in the Scripture, it’s talking once again about The Two Witnesses.  Right?  The two witnesses who have been testifying against The Antichrist, for the entire 3 ˝ years his domination of the earth, finally at the end – Satan himself kills the two witnesses.  And the Bible says: They lie in the streets of the city – Jerusalem – that is mystically called: (what?) Sodom & Egypt.  Those two things I believe represent: Homosexuality & Islam.  The two issues that are central to The Antichrist’s kingdom -- and which just happen to be central to the attacks on Christianity today.  What are the things that Christianity is concerned with, or should be concerned with – and a lot of Christians aren’t?  It’s exactly those two things.  Homosexuality & Islam are the two sides of the vice that are attempting to crush Christianity in the world today.  So step by step all through the Bible, every place that it’s mentioned, homosexuality is associated with personal and social destruction. 
  • (38:53)  The very last one I’ll mention is 1st Corinthians 6:9-11, and I’ll read that.  This is what I call theEX-GAY PASSAGE.”  That’s in the New Testament.  1st Corinthians 6:9-11
  • Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 AND SUCH WERE SOME OF YOU. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.”  
  • That shows you that there have been ex-gays in the church from the beginning of time – from the beginning of the church.  AND God has the power to deliver people from this, as we know He has the power to deliver them from anything.  And so all these attacks, all this ridicule that Christians are getting on the idea that “homosexuals can change” is just simply demonic mockery that has no basis in truth.  And that God has always been able to deliver people from any situation that they’re in.  Sometimes He allows us to struggle with something for his own purposes to build our character.  Count it all joy when you face various trials, right?  It is for the purpose of shaping you to be like Christ.  But that’s what’s going on.


  • (40:20)  And I wanted to lay the foundation there with the Church Group Audience just to get on the same page with this, because there aren’t very many people that actually teach this message.  And we have so sort of subsumed all this information that it’s not common knowledge any more in the church.  And so I always try to bring that up so we understand: this is not just another sin.  Right?  This is not just a secondary problem.  This is THEE CENTRAL ISSUE of the End-Times … in my theology.  I don’t know where you stand in terms of where we are.  I happen to believe the Lord is not that far off from coming back.  But even if He isn’t; even if he’s still a long ways off; even if my theology is wrong, and we’re looking at some other future, we’re still dealing with the reality of Christianity being severely threatened, and the attacks are coming. 
  • (41:20)  The whole culture war comes down to a conflict between Christians and HomosexualsReally. 
  • It’s all about a conflict between fundamental world views: Either the Judeo-Christian Sexual Ethic – that all sex belongs inside of marriage, and society should be discouraging sex outside of marriage (that’s the Biblical World View) VERSUS  The “Gay” Ethic of Sexual License – the idea that there shouldn’t be any restrictions on sexual behavior except the principal of mutual consent.  That’s always been what the cultural war is about.  And all the secondary stuff: all the fiscal issues, all derive from problems created by the breakdown of the family.  The whole entitlement system, we would not have it as a society if we didn’t first abandon God’s standard and start embracing all of these forms of wickedness that cause the family to break up.  And when the men are no longer there to take care of the women and the children, the government has to step in and do the job, and then everybody’s taxes have to be raised through the roof to pay for an ever-expanding system like that.  Centralized government becomes more power – again, we’re starting to sound like a Tea-Party meeting – but it all comes down, it all comes down, to the abandonment of what God said to do.
  • (42:34)  And so What do we do about that as Christian leaders, as Pastors?  First we have to have an awareness –  we have to understand just how serious this is – that this is NOT a secondary thing.  This is a much bigger deal.  This is a much bigger deal EVEN than dealing with abortion.  Abortion is about the most wicked thing that a human being can do to another human being – to actually destroy an unborn baby in the womb of its mother.  Right?  That’s about as wicked as it gets.  But even at that, that’s just a symptom of the problem.  It’s a symptom of a society that has decided to embrace Sexual Freedom as its most important value, and to reject the standard that says that sex belongs inside of marriage only. 
  • (43:18)  And the people who are driving that agenda – that philosophy of Sexual Freedom – are the activists of the homosexual movement.  Always have been from the beginning.  When they started doing this, it was in the late 1940’s.  They were NOT out in the open about it.  Harry Hay, a teacher of Marxist Theory for 18 years, formed the Mattachine Society He organized the “gay” activists in secret cell groups with the goal of perverting and transforming HETEROSEXUAL MORALITY.  He didn’t come out promoting homosexuality; he came out promoting anything-goes-sexuality.  Sexual Freedom: you don’t have to be married to have sex; everyone should be experimenting and all of that.  And of course once the heterosexual population had embraced that as a value, THEN they came out of the closet in the late 1960’s and took their place at the head of the parade of The Sexual Revolution.  But they had been working … you see this wasn’t a spontaneous change.  Right?  Most things that have happened in the history of the world are NOT spontaneous change.  It’s their small groups of very dedicated people who have an agenda are the ones who produce the change.  That’s what the Evolutionists did; that’s what the Marxists did; that’s what the Islamists did; that’s what all the Cults have done; and that’s what the “Gays” have done. 
  • (44:41)  And then people sort of wake up after awhile and realize that things have changed, and try to sort of accommodate the best they can.  But with this you can’t.  These are two … these Two World Views are contradictory, and they are exclusive.  ONLY ONE CAN PREVAIL.  You cannot have a society that at the same time says all sex belongs inside of marriage, and at the same time says all sex does NOT have to be inside of marriage.  They’re contradictory premises.  And so ONE OF THEM IS GOING TO SUCCEED, AND THE OTHER IS GOING TO FAIL.  Right?  So what that means is THIS IS A “WINNER-TAKE-ALL WAR” for the hearts and mind and culture of America, and everybody that we love.  And to see the thing of it is is that …
  • (45:26)  … The “GAYS” KNOW that they’re in a war, and the CHRISTIANS DON’T.  We don’t think of this as a war.  We just think of this as another problem that we have to deal with.  You know, we have multiple issues: we’re dealing with hunger and poverty; we’re dealing with brokenness, and we’re dealing with diseases and all that – and that this is just one more thing that comes along.  But in terms of Human Civilization – this is THE UTLIMATE ATTACK on the ORDER OF GODRight? 
  • (45:57)  When you want to understand the significance of something, just look at the Book of Genesis – It’s the Book of Beginnings.  And it establishes the things that are most foundational, and what God says, are the most significant in … forever after, because that’s the beginning.  And MARRIAGE is right in Chapter 1.  Right?  Everything you want to know about human society and human civilization.  Right?  It’s the first thing you learn about it is that we’re created in His Image as MALE & FEMALE – two complimentary halves of one whole.
  • (46:30)  And what is the Devil going to do to try to tear down civilization?  HE’S GOING TO ATTACK THAT IDEA!  Right?  You don’t have to be married; that you don’t have to have partners of the opposite gender; all the different components of that become the target of the Devil.  And that’s what we’re faced with right now.
  • (46:47)  Now whoever’s had their eyes open over the past few years cannot help but see what’s going on in our society.  Most of you really don’t understand – even those who have been watching don’t understand how serious it is.  I’ve been on the front lines of this, you know.  I’ve been dealing with it all over the world in the places where the battle is the hottest.  I’ve been in the hottest places of the battlefield, seeing it with my own eyes, and I’m coming here to “behind the lines.”  Right?  Now you may think you’re in the front lines because you have such a large homosexual population here, BUT YOU HAVEN’T.  Right?  You’re still just dealing with it.  You’re still just living your lives, enjoying your families, and you’re dealing with your careers, and working with the members of your church on a wide spectrum of issues, and YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND JUST HOW SERIOUS THIS IS.  That’s what I’m here about, here to WAKE YOU UP!  That’s why I went through the SCRIPTURES to get you down to the bottom line, that this is really THE ULTIMATE ISSUE – the ultimate moral issue of our age.  And that you have to take it with that kind of seriousness. 
  • (47:52)  So then what do you do, once you have that knowledge?  Well you realize that we have to … it’s all about life boats.  That we have to be … It’s the same job that we’ve always had as Christians:  WE’RE SUPPOSED TO BE LEADING THE LOST TO CHRIST.   Alright?  But now we have to lead the lost to Christ through a mine field of adversaries.  It’s not as easy as it was.  Now if you wanted to be an evangelist in the 1950’s … Alright?  Everybody would … you were not, your life was not being threatened.  You were not … When the Scripture that says “Those who desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus WILL suffer persecution …”  Right?  It’s NOT MAY suffer persecution.  It says WILL suffer persecution.  That’s a PROPHETIC STATEMENT.  Right?  It’s not a statement for all time, because clearly that wasn’t true.  When I was growing up, you didn’t take your life in your hand.  You would not be persecuted just for stating the truth.  … Why?  Because we had a Christian Society in which the fundamentals of Biblical Truth were assumed – that was the consensus that we held.  Not everybody was a Christian.  Not everything we did reflected Christian values.  But we had a, really … we represent America, especially from … in that time.  Really I think in the 40’s and 50’s really sort of represented sort of the pinnacle of Christianity.  Maybe I’ve got a lack of perspective on that, but I think it was very high.  And you compare it to where we are now, and we’re nowhere near.  Now there where problems, and there were issues like race for example.  We were doing a terrible job in that.  But you could let your kids go out and play.  You know all of the things that we stand and we talk about.  But that’s mostly gone now. 
  • (49:43)  We have eaten the seed corn.  And what’s happening now is DISINTIGRATION.  Right?  That the only thing that could change … that could fix the problems that we have now is a massive, genuine deep REVIVAL.  But frankly, I don’t see it.  Right?  Revival comes out of REPENTENCE, and there’s no repentance – even inside the Church there’s very little repentance.  People are accommodating themselves to the world.  And the majority of the Christians sitting in the pews next to you do not have a biblical world view.  They may be Christian.  They may believe and recite certain doctrines.  But a Biblical Worldview is the worldview that says that this [Scott holds up his Bible] is the beginning and the end of what I believe.  Right?  “Let God be true and every man a liar.” [Rom 3:4]  And that’s just simply not the case.  Instead we have people that for several generations have been being trained in an alternative religion called SECULAR HUMANISM, and right now most of the people claiming the name of Christ are actually … what they’re practicing is “Christian-Flavored Secular Humanism.”  It’s NOT Biblical Christianity. 
  • (50:59)  We have a whole church that cannot defend God’s choice to have the Hebrews wipe out the Canaanites.  So we try to carve that out of our Bibles, and make sure nobody ever references it because we have no ability to defend God’s choices in that.  Right?  And that we have this kind of “Nicer than Jesus” attitude.  Right?  That Mark Driscoll – he’s sort of a controversial very masculine-oriented pastor in Washington State, said, you know, they’re portraying Jesus as a “’Gay’ Hippie in a dress.”  Right?  A pacifist.  Jesus is not that.  Right?  The Jesus that I serve and the Jesus of the Bible: He CAME as a baby in a manger, and He DIED on a cross as a broken man, but He ROSE from the dead as the King of Kings.  And He’s COMING BACK SOON. 
  • (51:52)  And He’s coming back (the Scripture says) “to Judge and Make War.”  [Rev 19:11]  He’s coming with a sword.  And He’s going to do battle against His enemies, and the “blood is going to flow to the bridle of the horses.”  [Rev 14:20]  Right?  This is not a squeamish namby-pamby Christianity of the Bible teaches.  It is very masculine.  It is very raw and real.  And that God, that Jesus, that the “Gays” and the Left are now portraying in their own images – this sort of syrupy, sentimentally, compassionate, without any reason, without any rationality – is the same one Who is responsible for the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.  JESUS did not come to apologize and make up for the mistakes of God the Father.  Right?  HE IS GOD.  And so all the things that are in the Old Testament – that everyone’s trying to run away from – were done by His will.  And the stuff that’s coming in the future – you look in Revelation – is by His will. 
  • (53:05)  So how do we deal with all this where we are right nowHow do we handle this as the main thing about being here this morning?  Where are we, and WHAT DO WE DO AS CHURCH LEADERS AND PASTORS?  Number One we have to get back to a Biblical Worldview.  We’ve got to get people to start digging into the SCRIPTURES and getting prepared for the very very serious times that are coming. 
  • (53:31)  NOTE:  This Movement, this Homosexual Movement has in the space of 50 years …  Alright, think about this …  I’m 55 years old.  When I was born, homosexuality was illegal in every country of the world except for Sweden, which had decriminalized Sodomy in 1938.  Today homosexuals have more power in the legislatures and the courtrooms of the world than the Christian Church does.  Nothing, no cancer, no Social Cancer has EVER grown this fast in the History of the World!  EVER!  Nothing comes even close.  Not Darwinism; not Islam; not Marxism; not any other “ism” you can think of is anything like this.  THIS IS THE END TIMES SPIRITUAL PHENOMENA and it will not be stopped.  This is IMPLACABLE.  They NEVER stop.  They’re absolutely relentless.  Once they begin to move on … Once they come into a country to homosexualize it, THEY NEVER STOP; THEY NEVER HAVE BEEN STOPPED.  They’ve NEVER been rolled back.  [ (Part 1 of  2) Ends here at (54:33); Dr. Lively’s talk to Northwest Michigan Pastors will be completed in our SHOW #4 ].






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