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Notes taken on Dr. Scott Lively’s talk

Sunday night July 28th, 2013 in Traverse City, MI., entitled:


“Sunday evening talk to a small church” (Part 1 of 2)


Show #7 Notes / transcription of Show #7 only –

the remaining notes will be shared in Show #8.



Dr. SL = Dr. Scott Lively; 




PPM = Pastor Peter Moon



BW =

Bill Wiesner






Show #7




What Shared


(Times in left column show when these statements were made in this Show #7 – begins at 3 min 5 sec)

3:05 min


“Dr. Lively came in Friday … spent the night in Grand Rapids , rented a car, drove up here.



I’ve just gotten to know this brother … and we don’t want that to happen to people.








Dr. SL


here to


Incident in a public park … Homosexual exhibitionist in park near Russian Family in a park … he would not be appropriate around children … provoking Russian man to protect his family … he hit the homosexual once and he hit his head and died.  That took all the wind out of the sail of the Russian movement.  They attack Dr. Lively for defending the murder of homosexuals.



“Being an American who loves your country, and being a person who loves your neighbor and doesn’t want them to be enslaved to sin – to suffer the consequences of the curse of God



I began thinking in terms of Noah’s Ark – of lifeboats.  And I began going to places around the world where there’s still strong Christian morality, to warn them about what’s about to come.



We did a 50 city tour through the Soviet Union – through 8 different countries, and the message was: get ready; this is coming.



At the end of that 50 city tour things began to change in a very positive direction.



That’s the one major good thing that the Soviet Union did – the Soviet Union did not allow the sexual revolution to take place within their borders.  Right?  So while we had this incredible moral transformation in America, they didn’t.  Now they had all kinds of other problems, but the sexual revolution did not happen there, so that people never got around to embracing all the things that we think are normal today.  And to this point, they still believe in marriage, and they still reject homosexuality as a perversion.  And even though things like abortion are out of control, because it isn’t a genuine broad Christian culture because they are under Communism, still, they’re a lot better off than we are here.



… And I was in my law practice in Southern California, and I was asking the Lord: Can I have a new assignment?  If being a lawyer isn’t going to do any more than what we got out of the “Good News” case, I’m not going to waste my time doing something that I really don’t like all that much.  I’m just going to go back on the mission field and just preach the Gospel. 



What’s happening in the United States is not the first time it’s happened.  In the modern world, the gay movement actually started in the 1860’s in Germany, and it came to full power, and full fruition, and it was out of the German Gay subculture that the Nazi Party grew.  And I could talk a little bit about that if you’d like, but …



Ed Hernandez had a copy of this book [The Pink Swastika] and he gave it to Alexey Ledyaev, and Alexey has a denomination of 250 churches in 14 Russian speaking countries, and he’s being bashed for being Nazi for standing against Gay marriage in Latvia.  And he sees the book (the Pink Swastika) and he says, ah, this is perfect.  And so I get invited to go and be a speaker at their annual conference in Rega [in Russia] in 2006, on this topic, and I did.  And I was introduced to this denomination that is activist oriented.  Most of their pastors are former drug addicts, who were rehabilitated and healed in rehab houses that this denomination runs. 



And then many of them wanted to become pastors, so they were given some training, send them out, they say that we don’t have a church in that city – go take that city for Christ!  And they really meant that – it wasn’t just “expand our denomination so we can be bigger – it was: “Take the city for Christ and make it Christian!”  And they didn’t have the compartmentalized Christianity that Americans have.  And so when they would go to these cities, they would do things like “start political parties.”  And they would start businesses.  And they would start media organizations – all the things that Christians … you know, WHAT?  I mean how could you do that?  Well, BUT THEY DID IT! 



And then they were working from the top down – getting to the highest levels of political figures and trying to evangelize them.  And then I became a tool for them.  They took me from one city to the other, to one of these churches after the other, and they were often small – congregations of this size, but with enormous impact, because of their focus on trying to Christianize the city through every possible means.  And then I came in as the “celebrity,” I mean nobody knows that I’m not really a celebrity.  The Russians didn’t know that, and here I am being treated like that, and so they’re bringing me to all the political meetings, and I’m shaking hands with all the top guys, and having consultations with different folks.  And I’m lecturing in the universities as a lawyer, not as a pastor, because they still have that thing about “You can’t preach to the students.”  And so I would just give the same presentation, except I would start with Aristotle instead of the Bible, and then I would explain that it’s the same message.  And then of course, in the Q&A they would always ask me about the Bible, and so we’d get the rest of it out too.  And then I’d preach in the churches, and I did media interviews all over the place, and there’s this gigantic impact across all these countries, and at the end of it I wrote 2 different letters.  I wrote a letter to the Lithuanian people, and I wrote a letter to the Russian people, and I wrote suggestions down on how they should respond to this.  And for the first time, I actually got some positive effect…



But in St. Petersburg, I released the letter, and the primary thing that I suggested was that they really needed to criminalize gay propaganda.  Now I would never suggest that here in the United States – it’s because of the interpretation of the 1st Amendment, just the way ours is structured.  But the former Soviet countries – they’re authoritarian ruler ship countries anyway.  They like strong leaders.  They’re used to that.  They don’t have a problem with it.  And frankly that’s really what needed to happen to stop the agenda from coming in.  Well a couple years later, St. Petersburg adopted the law criminalizing gay propaganda, and that was just adopted nationally by the Russian government and signed by President Putin last month.  So it was a tremendous positive.  Somebody finally did it!  And then Lithuania passed a similar law … And now all of the dominos are starting to fall because all of the former Soviet countries that have been looking for leadership on this are now copying what Russia did, and the West is furious!  The Obama Administration and the European Union are furious that these countries are now bucking their utopian fantasy of a completely homosexualized world.



And so I was encouraged again that there is the ability to actually have the impact, but you have to do it in a strategic way.  You can’t beat the liberal in a place where’s they’re in full control.  You have to go to the place where the Christians and where the Conservatives still hold power, and then you need to start building on there and rolling things back.  And maybe things can be rolled back even in the countries that are bordering them, by showing at the good example.  So I’m pointing everybody to Russia right now.



Now what the Left is doing – and what they always do – is they’re now, they are trying to find any example that they can of homosexuals beaten up.  And now they’re claiming that because of this law there is now a wave of hate crimes against homosexuals.  Now I’m almost certain, that to whatever extend that this is happening, this is being orchestrated by them, because this is what they need to happen in order to have any effect in trying to counteract it.  But the Russians aren’t mamby pamby about such things.



But there are other places where the effort did not go so well – UGANDA. Dr. Lively taught from his book “Redeeming the Rainbow” in Uganda.  … how the homosexuals homosexualize a country. … National Holiday “Martyr’s Day June 3rth … the Story of the homosexual King Mwamba tortuously bound and marching 22 young men 37 miles, and when they would still not permit him to sodomize them, he burnt them alive.



What happens with Christianity under persecution … it’s real … it gets refined by fire.  Christianized Uganda took Uganda from the highest level of AIDS in Africa to the lowest by promoting Christian morality – abstinence until marriage and fidelity within marriage.



The whole family-planning, sexual freedom, condom agenda … is to break the moral fabric, to tear the moral fabric, so those countries become easier to control.  … Everybody is a slave to pornography and abortion and all these things… they’re easier to control.  So the globalists see what’s happening to Uganda, and Uganda is now setting an example for the whole world – they’ve got to do something about this.  So what they’re going to do – they’re going to bring the sexual revolution into Uganda for the first time.  Right?  And they do it the same way that they do it everywhere around the world.  They start with pornography.  Pornography is the beginning of the process because it softens up the population.



You see the homosexual – THIS IS DRIVEN BY HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVISTS, all over the place, this is their agenda, they’re the agents for this.  But they don’t come out at the beginning saying, homosexuality is good and you ought to try it; you know they’d get thrown in jail, because it’s usually illegal when they start it.  So then what they have to do is to promote heterosexual promiscuity, right?  And the easiest way to do that is through pornography, because that is the quickest way to get all men thinking about all the women all the time, and sort of seeding the ideas and the concept of sexual freedom in the population. [Here Scott gives the history of his involvement in Uganda.]



First they start out with pornography; then they bring in the homosexual agenda by promoting the idea that homosexuality is innate and unchangeable.  … And then they follow up behind that with an ANTIDISCRIMINATION LAW BASED ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION.  … The Anti-discrimination policy based on sexual orientation – like you just adopted here in your city – is the seed that contains the entire tree of the homosexual agenda, with all of its poisonous fruit.  … Led to boy prostitutes in Uganda.



You see you have to understand that underlying all the homosexual propaganda and all of their policies and programs – anti-bullying, anti-discrimination, all of these different things – is a narrative.  And the NARRATIVE says that ALL DISAPPROVAL OF HOMOSEXUALITY LEADS INNEVITABLY TO HATRED AND VIOLENCE AND MURDER OF HOMOSEXUALS.  Right?  That’s the narrative behind all of it. 



That’s why when they bring an anti-bullying policy into the schools – like you now have in your schools, right?  They don’t come in saying:  “We need to teach the kids to be respectful of others because we’re all created equally.  No.  They don’t do that.  They come in to say: “WE HAVE TO CHANGE ALL THE THINKING OF ALL THE CHILDREN TO BE PRO ‘GAY’, because if we allow them to have any thoughts that are anti-gay, then it would lead inevitably to the murder of homosexuals.  EVERYBODY has to be made – has to be transformed into a PRO-GAY ADVOCATE.  Right?  [JUST LIKE THE PLAN OF THE BRAND NEW TCAPS SO-CALLED OLWEUS ANTI-BULLYING POLICY.]   And that’s what the whole agenda is about.  NOBODY gets off the hook.



That’s why the word homophobia that they level on everybody.  WHAT THE HECK IS HOMOPHOBIA?  Right?  Originally, HOMOPHOBIA was a scientific word from the 50’s and the 40’s that meant a person’s fear of his own homosexuality – potential homosexuality.  So that if a man was starting to have dreams or something like that – he was afraid that maybe he was a homosexual; that that’s what homophobia meant – the fear of possibly being a homosexual.  Right?  But what the activists did is they took the word, and they turned it into an attack phrase.  They turned it into A RHETORICAL TACTIC, and now what it means is:  HATRED AND FEAR OF HOMOSEXUALS AT THE LEVEL OF A MENTAL ILLNESS.  That’s what it means.  That’s what a phobia is.  A PHOBIA is an ANXIETY DISORDER, right?  So HOMOPHOBIA IS FEAR OF HOMOSEXUALS AT THE LEVEL OF A MENTAL ILLNESS. 



Now who’s a homophobe?  Right?  Well, let’s ask the question, right?  I don’t want to be a homophobe, so tell me – WHERE IS THE LINE BETWEEN LEGITIMATE OPPOSITION TO HOMOSEXUALITY, and HOMOPHOBIA?  Right?  I don’t want to cross that line.  You know.  I want to be respectful of people.  Just tell me, what can’t I say, what can I say, and still be, and still believe that homosexuality is wrong.  Right.  Well, THERE IS NO LINE!  IT’S ALL UNACCEPTABLE.  You cannot think any thought.  You can’t hold any position, or any part of a position that says that homosexuality is WRONG or ABNORMAL or CHOSEN or anything.  Anything that they disagree with, you can’t hold that position, or you’re a HOMOPHOBE, which means you have a MENTAL ILLNESS – YOU’RE A MENTALLY-ILL BIGGOT!  Right?  THAT’S NOT SCIENCE!  That is manipulation – PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION – of the entire society!  And all of the elites – all of the people sitting in the seats of power are going along with it.  And they’re not … no one’s pointing this out.  They’re just simply using the term as if it were legitimate – governors and judges and college professors – very intelligent people that should know better.  And they’re just simply doing that.  So what do you do in the face of all this – it’s just outrageous. 



Anyway, I’ve gotten off the track of dealing with Uganda.  But this Uganda bill that came out that passes this capital punishment provision that then … I was blamed for that.  Actually there were originally there were planning a bunch of different that had preached basically the same message in Uganda:  Rick Warren and Lou Engle and a bunch of other people, and I’m the least of all of them.  But I argue with them, everybody else is sort of like, ooh ooh, you know, I don’t want to deal with this.  But I argued with them. I just simply always speak the truth unapologetically and I don’t care what anybody thinks about it.  I tell the truth.  I deal with things as they are.  And of course then all of them just went shoooooo.  Right?  And now we’re going to blame Scott Lively for being the mastermind of the “kill the gays” bill in Uganda.  So all of a sudden now I’m being … I’m getting this pummeling all over the world – the Guardian newspaper in England; the National Post in Canada; the New York Times, ABC Nightline; and all these are all bashing me for this, even though I’m on the record: I never supported that.  But I went in and spoke to the Ugandan Parliament, right?  Members of the Ugandan Parliament; it wasn’t the whole assembly.  But I advocated that they focus on therapy prevention.  And I used my own testimony – I said I was arrested for drunk driving.  Right?  I spent 16 years in bondage to drugs and alcohol.  And toward the end of that time, I was arrested for drunk driving, and the state I was living in, Oregon, had an option of taking therapy instead of going to jail.  And I said “That’s what I did.” And it was one of the best things that ever happened to me.   And I said, why don’t you do that in dealing with homosexuality.  Don’t focus on punishment.  Focus on therapy.  Right?  You can be the first country in the world to have a national program for helping homosexuals for coming out of homosexuality.  Right?  And I said the second thing is that you can inoculate your entire population against this by simply TEACHING THE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOLS TO PREPARE FOR MARRIAGE.  Right?  That … age-appropriate instruction, what marriage is, and what helps a person to be the best husband or the best wife that they can be.  Right?  You have that as the central aspect of your national school curriculum?  You can be producing great kids who are looking forward to the day that they get married.  And when they’re thinking about that, and taught abstinence and the importance of marriage and looking forward, and how to pick the best husband, how to pick the best wife – THEY’RE NOT GOING TO FALL FOR ALL THIS GARBAGE ABOUT GO OUT AND HAVE SEX WITH AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU WANT.  Right?  It’s the contradictory and the good alternative to that philosophy.  So that’s what I told them.  But they didn’t listen to me.  And they came out with the language that they did.  Well so sometimes it doesn’t work as well as it did in Russia.  But even in Uganda, things are better off now than they were before, except I got sued for “Crimes against Humanity” for preaching against homosexuality in Uganda.   



I’m currently being sued in Federal Court under the alien tort statute for a category of crimes created to prosecute the Nazis.  … This is a Marxist law firm in New York that went out and found these homosexual activists in Uganda.  … It’s a frivolous lawsuit; I know that as an attorney. …Those who desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.



But I don’t stop.  I am going to speak the truth, come what may.  And what I am doing is that I go around the country and I have meetings like this and I talk to other Christians to encourage them and to equip them to be able to understand what is so important about this issue.  AND TO SET AN EXAMPLE OF COURAGE UNDER PERSECUTION so that you will be able to TAKE SOME STEPS IN THAT DIRECTION YOURSELF.  Right?  Because that’s what it’s all about.  That’s why GOD ALLOWED THE APOSTLES TO BE MARTYRED.  He allowed them to be martyred so that the rest of church could see COURAGE in the face of persecution.  Because THAT’S WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS REALLY ALL ABOUT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.  



You know we have had in this country, we’ve had a unique unique privilege over the past few generations of living in peace and security that has never existed in the history of the world.  Right?  The history of the world is a history of war and hatred and torture and violence and insecurity and instability throughout almost the entire time.  But because our forefathers came and established A CITY ON A HILL; THEY CAME TO BUILD A CIVILIZATION ON THE FOUNDATION OF THE BIBLE.  God promised us that the nation whose God is the Lord is blessed.  Is it Psalm 33?  Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.  I think it’s Psalm 33:12.  And He honored that promise.  And for as long as we were doing that, we got increasingly more prosperous, and increasingly more secure, until when all of us – the older people here more especially – that all of us most of our lives were in genuine Christian Culture, in which we never even had to think about – the Scripture wasn’t even true for us that those who desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus would suffer persecution.  That’s how much Christianity has been infused in our culture.  BUT IT’S GONE NOW, right?  We’ve eaten the seed corn.  The infrastructure of the society …



The young people that are in the room today, right, have never known a time when marriage was truly valid by the society.  They’ve never known a time when the television programs didn’t portray every single person as being a sexually promiscuous hedonist.  Right. … They’ve never known a time when homosexuality wasn’t being presented with perfectly normal and natural, and even blessed by God.  Right?  And so they’re in the generation of decline leading to things with some very very difficult things coming on us – very very difficult times are coming on us.



Because we’re dealing with a conflict of TWO FUNDAMENTAL WORLD VIEWS:  ONE THAT SAYS THAT SEX BELONGS INSIDE OF MARRIAGE; and THE OTHER ONE SAYS IT’S ABOUT SEXUAL FREEDOM.  The two cannot coexist.  Only one can prevail; the other one MUST FAIL.  What is that?  That’s a direct attack on Christianity.  Where did the idea come from that sex belongs only in marriage?  It comes from the Bible.  IT COMES ONLY FROM THE BIBLE.  And this idea that sexual behavior, that sexuality should be completely free, and that there should be no restrictions on it except maybe the principle of mutual consent, has been winning since the 1960’s.  IT HAS BECOME THE CENTRAL VALUE OF THE SOCIETY, and now we, who believe the Bible, and whose grandparents and great-grandparents took for granted the marriage-centered society – we are now marginalized.  We’re now on the fringe increasingly, and this movement that has brought this about – THE HOMOSEXUAL POLITICAL MOVEMENT – has defeated every single secular institution in its way toward remaking the society in its own image.  



Dr. Lively’s Show #7 talk ends here – to be completed on upcoming Show #8.

(Local Northwest Michigan information from here to end of Show – watch it at www.TCFamily.org )


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