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Dr. Scott Lively

“Sunday evening talk to a small church”

(Shows # 7 & 8)


(Notes / Transcript)



Talk #4 Notes taken on Dr. Scott Lively’s talk Sunday night July 28th, 2013   In Traverse City, MI., entitled:

(Highlighting inserted by Bill Wiesner – you can see how important I believe this information is.)


Show #7: pp 1 –  7   (http://www.upnorthmedia.org/watchupnorthtv.asp?sdbfid=6863#vid)

Show #8: pp 8 - 21


Note:  The notes may help give you a taste of Dr. Lively’s great teaching, but there are some large gaps where no notes were taken.  You will do best to print out the Show Notes for a partial guide, but then watch the entire Scott Lively shows to truly understand the Secular History of the ‘Gay Rights’ Movement.


Key: SL = Dr. Scott Lively;     PPM = Pastor Peter Moon;      BW   = Bill Wiesner




Dr. Scott Lively

Pastor Peter Moon

Bill Wiesner / TCFamily.org Founder












Show #7

(actual start times)


Beginning Of Scott Lively Show #7 transcription / Notes:


Watch Scott Lively Show #7 HERE:  (http://www.upnorthmedia.org/watchupnorthtv.asp?sdbfid=6863#vid)


Pastor Peter Moon:

“Dr. Lively came in Friday … spent the night in Grand Rapids, rented a car, drove up here.


Pastor Peter Moon:

I’ve just gotten to know this brother … and we don’t want that to happen to people.


Bill Wiesner:



Dr. Scott Lively mostly speaking from here to the end:

… Incident in a public park … Homosexual exhibitionist in park near Russian Family in a park … he would not be appropriate around children … provoking Russian man to protect his family … he hit the homosexual once and he hit his head and died.  That took all the wind out of the sail of the Russian movement.  They attack Dr. Lively for defending the murder of homosexuals.


“Being an American who loves your country, and being a person who loves your neighbor and doesn’t want them to be enslaved to sin – to suffer the consequences of the curse of God


I began thinking in terms of Noah’s Ark – of lifeboats.  And I began going to places around the world where there’s still strong Christian morality, to warn them about what’s about to come.


We did a 50 city tour through the Soviet Union – through 8 different countries, and the message was: get ready; this is coming.


At the end of that 50 city tour things began to change in a very positive direction.


That’s the one major good thing that the Soviet Union did – the Soviet Union did not allow the sexual revolution to take place within their borders.  Right?  So while we had this incredible moral transformation in America, they didn’t.  Now they had all kinds of other problems, but the sexual revolution did not happen there, so that people never got around to embracing all the things that we think are normal today.  And to this point, they still believe in marriage, and they still reject homosexuality as a perversion.  And even though things like abortion are out of control, because it isn’t a genuine broad Christian culture because they are under Communism, still, they’re a lot better off than we are here.


… And I was in my law practice in Southern California, and I was asking the Lord: Can I have a new assignment?  If being a lawyer isn’t going to do any more than what we got out of the “Good News” case, I’m not going to waste my time doing something that I really don’t like all that much.  I’m just going to go back on the mission field and just preach the Gospel. 


What’s happening in the United States is not the first time it’s happened.  In the modern world, the gay movement actually started in the 1860’s in Germany, and it came to full power, and full fruition, and it was out of the German Gay subculture that the Nazi Party grew.  And I could talk a little bit about that if you’d like, but …


Ed Hernandez had a copy of this book [The Pink Swastika (5th Edition)] and he gave it to Alexey Ledyaev, and Alexey has a denomination of 250 churches in 14 Russian speaking countries, and he’s being bashed for being Nazi for standing against Gay marriage in Latvia.  And he sees the book (the Pink Swastika) and he says, ah, this is perfect.  And so I get invited to go and be a speaker at their annual conference in Rega [in Russia] in 2006, on this topic, and I did.  And I was introduced to this denomination that is activist oriented.  Most of their pastors are former drug addicts, who were rehabilitated and healed in rehab houses that this denomination runs. 


And then many of them wanted to become pastors, so they were given some training, send them out, they say that we don’t have a church in that city – go take that city for Christ!  And they really meant that – it wasn’t just “expand our denomination so we can be bigger – it was: “Take the city for Christ and make it Christian!”  And they didn’t have the compartmentalized Christianity that Americans have.  And so when they would go to these cities, they would do things like “start political parties.”  And they would start businesses.  And they would start media organizations – all the things that Christians … you know, WHAT?  I mean how could you do that?  Well, BUT THEY DID IT! 


And then they were working from the top down – getting to the highest levels of political figures and trying to evangelize them.  And then I became a tool for them.  They took me from one city to the other, to one of these churches after the other, and they were often small – congregations of this size, but with enormous impact, because of their focus on trying to Christianize the city through every possible means.  And then I came in as the “celebrity,” I mean nobody knows that I’m not really a celebrity.  The Russians didn’t know that, and here I am being treated like that, and so they’re bringing me to all the political meetings, and I’m shaking hands with all the top guys, and having consultations with different folks.  And I’m lecturing in the universities as a lawyer, not as a pastor, because they still have that thing about “You can’t preach to the students.”  And so I would just give the same presentation, except I would start with Aristotle instead of the Bible, and then I would explain that it’s the same message.  And then of course, in the Q&A they would always ask me about the Bible, and so we’d get the rest of it out too.  And then I’d preach in the churches, and I did media interviews all over the place, and there’s this gigantic impact across all these countries, and at the end of it I wrote 2 different letters.  I wrote a Letter to the Lithuanian people, and I wrote a Letter to the Russian people, and I wrote suggestions down on how they should respond to this.  And for the first time, I actually got some positive effect…


But in St. Petersburg, I released the letter, and the primary thing that I suggested was that they really needed to criminalize gay propaganda.  Now I would never suggest that here in the United States – it’s because of the interpretation of the 1st Amendment, just the way ours is structured.  But the former Soviet countries – they’re authoritarian ruler ship countries anyway.  They like strong leaders.  They’re used to that.  They don’t have a problem with it.  And frankly that’s really what needed to happen to stop the agenda from coming in.  Well a couple years later, St. Petersburg adopted the law criminalizing gay propaganda, and that was just adopted nationally by the Russian government and signed by President Putin last month.  So it was a tremendous positive.  Somebody finally did it!  And then Lithuania passed a similar law … And now all of the dominos are starting to fall because all of the former Soviet countries that have been looking for leadership on this are now copying what Russia did, and the West is furious!  The Obama Administration and the European Union are furious that these countries are now bucking their utopian fantasy of a completely homosexualized world.


And so I was encouraged again that there is the ability to actually have the impact, but you have to do it in a strategic way.  You can’t beat the liberal in a place where’s they’re in full control.  You have to go to the place where the Christians and where the Conservatives still hold power, and then you need to start building on there and rolling things back.  And maybe things can be rolled back even in the countries that are bordering them, by showing at the good example.  So I’m pointing everybody to Russia right now.


Now what the Left is doing – and what they always do – is they’re now, they are trying to find any example that they can of homosexuals beaten up.  And now they’re claiming that because of this law there is now a wave of hate crimes against homosexuals.  Now I’m almost certain, that to whatever extend that this is happening, this is being orchestrated by them, because this is what they need to happen in order to have any effect in trying to counteract it.  But the Russians aren’t mamby pamby about such things.


But there are other places where the effort did not go so well UGANDA.Dr. Lively taught from his book “Redeeming the Rainbow” in Uganda.  … how the homosexuals homosexualize a country. … National Holiday “Martyr’s Day June 3rd … the Story of the homosexual King Mwamba tortuously bound and marching 22 young men 37 miles, and when they would still not permit him to sodomize them, he burnt them alive.


What happens with Christianity under persecution … it’s real … it gets refined by fire.  Christianized Uganda took Uganda from the highest level of AIDS in Africa to the lowest by promoting Christian morality – abstinence until marriage and fidelity within marriage.


The whole family-planning, sexual freedom, condom agenda … is to break the moral fabric, to tear the moral fabric, so those countries become easier to control.  … Everybody is a slave to pornography and abortion and all these things… they’re easier to control.  So the globalists see what’s happening to Uganda, and Uganda is now setting an example for the whole world – they’ve got to do something about this.  So what they’re going to do – they’re going to bring the sexual revolution into Uganda for the first time.  Right?  And they do it the same way that they do it everywhere around the world.  They start with pornography.  Pornography is the beginning of the process because it softens up the population.


You see the homosexual – THIS IS DRIVEN BY HOMOSEXUAL ACTIVISTS, all over the place, this is their agenda – they’re the agents for this.  But they don’t come out at the beginning saying, homosexuality is good and you ought to try it; you know they’d get thrown in jail, because it’s usually illegal when they start it.  So then what they have to do is to promote heterosexual promiscuity, right?  And the easiest way to do that is through pornography, because that is the quickest way to get all men thinking about all the women all the time, and sort of seeding the ideas and the concept of sexual freedom in the population. [here Scott gives the history of his involvement in Uganda.]


First they start out with pornography; then they bring in the homosexual agenda by promoting the idea that homosexuality is innate and unchangeable.  … And then they follow up behind that with an ANTIDISCRIMINATION LAW BASED ON SEXUAL ORIENTATION.  … The Anti-discrimination policy based on sexual orientation – like you just adopted here in your city – is the seed that contains the entire tree of the homosexual agenda, with all of its poisonous fruit.  … Led to boy prostitutes in Uganda.


You see you have to understand that underlying all the homosexual propaganda and all of their policies and programs – anti-bullying, anti-discrimination, all of these different things – is a narrative.  And the NARRATIVE says that ALL DISAPPROVAL OF HOMOSEXUALITY LEADS INNEVITABLY TO HATRED AND VIOLENCE AND MURDER OF HOMOSEXUALS.  Right?  That’s the narrative behind all of it. 


That’s why when they bring an anti-bullying policy into the schools [i.e. TRAVERSE CITY AREA PUBLIC SCHOOLS – TCAPS] – like you now have in your schools, right?  They don’t come in saying:  “We need to teach the kids to be respectful of others because we’re all created equally.  No.  They don’t do that.  They come in to say: “WE HAVE TO CHANGE ALL THE THINKING OF ALL THE CHILDREN TO BE PRO ‘GAY’, because if we allow them to have any thoughts that are anti-gay, then it would lead inevitably to the murder of homosexuals.  EVERYBODY has to be made – has to be transformed into a PRO-GAY ADVOCATE.  Right?  [JUST LIKE THE PLAN OF THE BRAND NEW TCAPS SO-CALLED OLWEUS ANTI-BULLYING POLICY.]   And that’s what the whole agenda is about.  NOBODY gets off the hook.


That’s why the word homophobia that they level on everybody.  WHAT THE HECK IS HOMOPHOBIA?  Right?  Originally, HOMOPHOBIA was a scientific word from the 50’s and the 40’s that meant a person’s fear of his own homosexuality – potential homosexuality.  So that if a man was starting to have dreams or something like that – he was afraid that maybe he was a homosexual; that that’s what homophobia meant – the fear of possibly being a homosexual.  Right?  But what the activists did is they took the word, and they turned it into an attack phrase.  They turned it into A RHETORICAL TACTIC, and now what it means is:  HATRED AND FEAR OF HOMOSEXUALS AT THE LEVEL OF A MENTAL ILLNESS.  That’s what it means.  That’s what a phobia is.  A PHOBIA is an ANXIETY DISORDER, right?  So HOMOPHOBIA IS FEAR OF HOMOSEXUALS AT THE LEVEL OF A MENTAL ILLNESS. 


Now who’s a homophobe?  Right?  Well, let’s ask the question, right?  I don’t want to be a homophobe, so tell me – WHERE IS THE LINE BETWEEN LEGITIMATE OPPOSITION TO HOMOSEXUALITY, and HOMOPHOBIA?  Right?  I don’t want to cross that line.  You know.  I want to be respectful of people.  Just tell me, what can’t I say, what can I say, and still be, and still believe that homosexuality is wrong.  Right.  Well, THERE IS NO LINE!  IT’S ALL UNACCEPTABLE!  You cannot think any thought.  You can’t hold any position, or any part of a position that says that homosexuality is WRONG or ABNORMAL or CHOSEN or anything.  Anything that they disagree with, you can’t hold that position, or you’re a HOMOPHOBE, which means you have a MENTAL ILLNESS – YOU’RE A MENTALLY-ILL BIGGOT!  Right?  THAT’S NOT SCIENCE!  That is manipulation – PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION – of the entire society!  And all of the elites – all of the people sitting in the seats of power are going along with it.  And they’re not … no one’s pointing this out.  They’re just simply using the term as if it were legitimate – governors and judges and college professors – very intelligent people that should know better.  And they’re just simply doing that.  So what do you do in the face of all this?  It’s just outrageous


Anyway, I’ve gotten off the track of dealing with Uganda.  But this Uganda bill that came out that passes this capital punishment provision that then … I was blamed for that.  Actually there were originally there were planning a bunch of different that had preached basically the same message in Uganda:  Rick Warren and Lou Engle and a bunch of other people, and I’m the least of all of them.  But I argue with them, everybody else is sort of like, ooh ooh, you know, I don’t want to deal with this.  But I argued with them. I just simply always speak the truth unapologetically and I don’t care what anybody thinks about it.  I tell the truth.  I deal with things as they are.  And of course then all of them just went shoooooo.  Right?  And now we’re going to blame Scott Lively for being the mastermind of the “kill the gays” bill in Uganda.  So all of a sudden now I’m being … I’m getting this pummeling all over the world – the Guardian newspaper in England; the National Post in Canada; the New York Times, ABC Nightline; and all these are all bashing me for this, even though I’m on the record: I never supported that.

But I went in and spoke to the Ugandan Parliament, right?  Members of the Ugandan Parliament; it wasn’t the whole assembly.  But I [FIRST] advocated that they focus on therapy prevention.  And I used my own testimony – I said I was arrested for drunk driving.  Right?  I spent 16 years in bondage to drugs and alcohol.  And toward the end of that time, I was arrested for drunk driving, and the state I was living in, Oregon, had an option of taking therapy instead of going to jail.  And I said “That’s what I did.” And it was one of the best things that ever happened to me.   And I said, why don’t you do that in dealing with homosexuality?  Don’t focus on punishment.  Focus on therapy.  Right?  You can be the first country in the world to have a national program for helping homosexuals for coming out of homosexuality.  Right? 

And I said the SECOND thing is that you can inoculate your entire population against this by simply TEACHING THE CHILDREN IN THE SCHOOLS TO PREPARE FOR MARRIAGE.  Right?  That … age-appropriate instruction, what marriage is, and what helps a person to be the best husband or the best wife that they can be.  Right?  You have that as the central aspect of your national school curriculum?  You can be producing great kids who are looking forward to the day that they get married.  And when they’re thinking about that, and taught abstinence and the importance of marriage and looking forward, and how to pick the best husband, how to pick the best wife – THEY’RE NOT GOING TO FALL FOR ALL THIS GARBAGE ABOUT GO OUT AND HAVE SEX WITH AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU WANT.  Right?  It’s the contradictory and the good alternative to that philosophy.

 So that’s what I told them.  But they didn’t listen to me.  And they came out with the language that they did.  Well so sometimes it doesn’t work as well as it did in Russia.  But even in Uganda, things are better off now than they were before, except I got sued for “Crimes against Humanity” for preaching against homosexuality in Uganda.   


I’m currently being sued in Federal Court under the alien tort statute for a category of crimes created to prosecute the Nazis.  … This is a Marxist law firm in New York that went out and found these homosexual activists in Uganda.  … It’s a frivolous lawsuit; I know that as an attorney. …Those who desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.  But I don’t stop.


But I don’t stop.  I am going to speak the truth, come what may.  And what I am doing is that I go around the country and I have meetings like this and I talk to other Christians to encourage them and to equip them to be able to understand what is so important about this issue.  AND TO SET AN EXAMPLE OF COURAGE UNDER PERSECUTION so that you will be able to TAKE SOME STEPS IN THAT DIRECTION YOURSELF.  Right?  Because that’s what it’s all about.  That’s why GOD ALLOWED THE APOSTLES TO BE MARTYRED.  He allowed them to be martyred so that the rest of church could see COURAGE in the face of persecution.  Because THAT’S WHAT CHRISTIANITY IS REALLY ALL ABOUT IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD.  


You know we have had in this country; we’ve had a unique unique privilege over the past few generations of living in peace and security that has never existed in the history of the world.  Right?  The history of the world is a history of war and hatred and torture and violence and insecurity and instability throughout almost the entire time.  But because our forefathers came and established A CITY ON A HILL; THEY CAME TO BUILD A CIVILIZATION ON THE FOUNDATION OF THE BIBLE.  God promised us that the nation whose God is the Lord is blessed.  Is it Psalm 33?  Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord.  I think it’s Psalm 33:12.  And He honored that promise.  And for as long as we were doing that, we got increasingly more prosperous, and increasingly more secure, until when all of us – the older people here more especially – that all of us most of our lives were in genuine Christian Culture, in which we never even had to think about – the Scripture wasn’t even true for us that those who desire to live Godly in Christ Jesus would suffer persecution.  That’s how much Christianity has been infused in our culture.  BUT IT’S GONE NOW, right?  We’ve eaten the seed corn.  The infrastructure of the society …


The young people that are in the room today, right, have never known a time when marriage was truly valid by the society.  They’ve never known a time when the television programs didn’t portray every single person as being a sexually promiscuous hedonist.  Right. … They’ve never known a time when homosexuality wasn’t being presented with perfectly normal and natural, and even blessed by God.  Right?  And so they’re in the generation of decline leading to things with some very very difficult things coming on us – very very difficult times are coming on us.


(End of Scott Lively portion of Show #7)

Because we’re dealing with a conflict of TWO FUNDAMENTAL WORLD VIEWS:  ONE THAT SAYS THAT SEX BELONGS INSIDE OF MARRIAGE; and THE OTHER ONE SAYS IT’S ABOUT SEXUAL FREEDOM.  The two cannot coexist.  Only one can prevail; the other one MUST FAIL.  What is that?  That’s a direct attack on Christianity.  Where did the idea come from that sex belongs only in marriage?  It comes from the Bible.  IT COMES ONLY FROM THE BIBLE.  And this idea that sexual behavior, that sexuality should be completely free, and that there should be no restrictions on it except maybe the principle of mutual consent, has been winning since the 1960’s.  IT HAS BECOME THE CENTRAL VALUE OF THE SOCIETY, and now we, who believe the Bible, and whose grandparents and great-grandparents took for granted the marriage-centered society – we are now marginalized.  We’re now on the fringe increasingly, and this movement that has brought this about – THE HOMOSEXUAL POLITICAL MOVEMENT – has defeated every single secular institution in its way toward remaking the society in its own image.  


Show #8

(actual start times)


Beginning Of Scott Lively Show #8 transcription / Notes:



1968 on June 28th was “’Gay’ Pride Day” – It’s the anniversary of the STONEWALL RIOT, when the homosexuals rioted against the police, and the movement shifted its goal – its ostensible goal – from the right to be left alone, that’s what they said they wanted, the right to be left alone, and shifted to a demand for ABSOLUTE CONTROL OVER ALL THE GATE-KEEPING POSITIONS` -- every seat of power being in their hands, or in the hands of somebody who’s in complete agreement with them.  And they set up from that point: their first target was the American Psychiatric Association in 1973.  They took that down – one after the other, every single institution fell, until the very last one, the Boy Scouts of America fell six weeks ago.  And there’s nobody else left, [except] the possibility of the REPUBLICAN PARTY, BUT THEY’RE HALF GONE ANYWAY, and I don’t think they’re going to resist!  And actually, the ACLU has hired John McCain’s former campaign manager … Erick Schmidt to be their point man inside the GOP to turn it pro-‘gay’.  And of course the Republican Establishment wants to do that anyway – they don’t want to deal with the social issues.  So it’s going to be … I don’t even consider them a barrier to the ‘gays’ anymore.  They’re half-controlled anyway.


So you’ve got 40 years, right?  It was 1973 to 2013 – in just 40 years they took down every single secular institution in their way.  And the only thing left now is the Church.  But they’ve got 40 years of war experience!  They’ve got 40 years of training soldiers and activists.  They’ve got 40 years of building up war machinery.  They’ve got 40 years experience of how to take down resistance.  And all that now is going to be brought against the church.  And we’re going to start seeing a wave of transformation of the Church that you would not believe.  And I’m talking in a very short period of time.


You know I put out an essay predicting this, and six days later Alan Chambers shut down Exodus International.  Does everyone know who Exodus International is?  Exodus International is the icon of the ex-‘gay’ movement.  It’s a 37-year-old ministry that is built around the biblical truth of coming out of bondage in Egypt into freedom in Christ – by a homosexual coming out into freedom.  And Alan Chambers – six days after I put that out – held a press conference; announced that he was closing the organization; and he apologized to the world for ever having said that homosexuals could change.  Right?  And that – what he is a victim of – is ‘gay’ theology.  Right?  The idea that homosexuality is acceptable to God; that God created people to be homosexual; He doesn’t need them to change.  I think Alan Chambers has decided to stay married to his wife, and that’s a good thing.  I don’t know … he’s probably still a Christian in his heart, but the doctrine that he’s embraced is … heresy.  But that’s just the first thing – that was the first step.


And now it’s going to come up from inside the church.  As the older people are dying off, those who still have residual Christian values that they learned from their childhood, as they die off, the younger people that have never known anything else except pro-‘gay’ propaganda in their public schools and in all their television programs, in their movies that they watch.  Right?  There’s a ‘gay’ character in ALL the TV shows.  And the whole purpose of that is to normalize it so you just don’t think it’s not all that big a deal.  Right?  Those people are now coming up in the churches.  They’re going to take more leadership positions.  They’re going to be challenging the pastors who still have the guts to stand up.  There’s going to be homosexual activists infiltrating the churches – right? – posing as heterosexuals, and challenging the pastor if they hear anything that’s against them.  Pastors … Pastors are very vulnerable to this stuff, and you’re going to see pastors capitulating on this in HUGE numbers.


My prediction is that you’re going to see HUGE numbers of pastors who are going to “change with the times,” so that they don’t have to deal with splits of their churches.  But there’s going to be splits anyway – denominations are going to split; churches are going to split; families are going to split.  Because God is doing a work here.  God is doing a work of putting everyone to the test.  He’s dividing the sheep from the goats.  Now it’s not the ultimate sheep and the goats division, because that has to do with believe in Christ.  But it’s the preparation for it.  If the devil can get you to stampede on something small, then he can get you to stampede on the bigger stuff.  If you won’t stand up for the truth when all you’re going to face is being called “homophobe, right?; if you won’t stand up for the truth when all you’re going to have to deal with is discomfort of people disagreeing with you, or calling you names, then how are you going to stand up when it’s the Mark of the Beast, or something else on the way to the Mark of the Beast?  Right?  That’s what this is all about.  That’s why I’m here.  And I wanted to be able to …


That’s my message now, and it’s a discouraging message in one sense, because it’s saying, really, we have to live with the reality of things as the way they are.  But it’s hopeful in the sense that like the Bible says: “When you see these things, lift up your head, because your redemption draweth nigh.  Now if you have a theology, right?  If you have a theology that Jesus isn’t coming back, or that it’s a long time in the future, or you know, how miserable are you going to be, right?  But if you really … if you believe the Bible, and that the Second Coming of Christ isn’t that long, then this is hopeful stuff.  Because it’s like it says that the Lord can’t come back, right?  It says that the day can’t come … Let’s go right to it [in the Bible.]  I dealt with this …


… In 2 Thessalonians 2:1 – Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers not to become easily upset or alarmed by some prophecy, report, or letter supposedly saying that the Day of the Lord has already come.  [Right?  In other words, this is kind of like a Pre-Trib Rapture kind of a thing – that there are believers that believe that they’ve missed it.  They believe they’ve missed the rapture – that somebody was distributing a letter purporting to be from Paul that it had already happened and that they’d missed the Day of the Lord.]  And it said “Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day, the Day of the Lord, the Return to Glory, WILL NOT COME until the rebellion [apostasy] occurs, and the Man of Lawlessness is revealed – the man doomed to destruction.  He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God, or its worship, so that he sets himself up in God’s Temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”  Anyway that point is that …


These things have to happen.  There has to be an age of apostasy; there has to be a falling away; the hearts of many have to grow cold – in that time leading up to the return of Christ.  And so I think it’s a privilege for me to have been … for the Lord to have chosen me to deal with the homosexual issue – to be able to see it earlier than a lot of people have seen it, right?  There’s a lot of people talking about End-Time stuff, obviously, but ah …  And a lot of them that I talked to, they kind of came awake about it about the same time that I did.  But GOD PUT ME IN A PLACE TO BE ABLE TO SEE IT MYSELF IN RELATION TO HOMOSEXUALITY.  And I think that that’s what’s happening – that’s central to it. 


HOMOSEXUALITY IN THE BIBLE IS ALWAYS ASSOCIATED WITH REBELLION AGAINST GOD – EXTREME REBELLION AGAINST GOD – LEADING TO DISASTER, every single time that it’s mentioned, EXCEPT the EX-GAY PASSAGE, which is 1Cor 6:9-11 – “… Such WERE some of you … [SuchWereSomeOfYou.org]   lists of people that aren’t going to be … that aren’t going to inherit the Kingdom of Heaven – includes homosexuals with drunkards – I used to be one too.  It says “such WERE some of you.  I was, but I was washed; I was sanctified; I was justified by the Lord Jesus Christ, the same way, that you know there are ex-‘gays’ in the church from the beginning, right?  The book of 1st Corinthians was written, what you know, 50 or something, 55?  I don’t remember, but you know so at least from 55 A.D., there’s ex-‘gays’ in the Church.  Right?  So this idea that homosexuals can’t change is just bunk.  It’s just a lie.  God can heal anybody.  Right? 


So, anyway, I was just going to take Q&A tonight, so I talked … It was a long introduction.  Here we go.  Give me your questions. 


Q #1: (Matthew Schoech):  Alright.  I believe it was Lennon that said that “communism must be built with non-communist hands.”  I find it very strange parallel in the homosexual community.  …


Right.  And to get right to the bottom line of it is that public policy is always driven by world view. …Homosexuality … is the only sin that was chosen by God to represent the reprobate mind, in Romans 1. …It isn’t just another sin.  He has singled it out from the beginning to the end of the Bible for special notice as extreme rebellion against Him [God] that leads to destruction. … It’s the preview of the second destruction: the first destruction by the flood; the second destruction the Bible says is by fire.  … And if you want to get deeper into it, it was the ancient Rabbis say that it was homosexual marriage that was the last straw for God before he brought the flood.  And you know what?  There hasn’t been homosexual marriage on the earth for 5000 years, accepted by society, until now.  Right?  And what did Jesus say?  That it was going to be like the days of Noah.  Right?  And do you want to confirm what the Rabbis said?  Well just look at the clues that are in the Bible.  There’s two clues:  that “they were marrying and giving in marriage,” and “the thoughts of their heart was only evil continuously.” So what do people do regarding marriage when the thoughts of their heart are only evil continuously?  What’s the most evil thing you can do with marriage?  Right?  Well I think we’re seeing it going on right now.  So, Days of Noah?  I think they’re about here.


Q #2 There is a seemingly never ending list of major [~Gay friendly] companies that we use:  Google, Levi, Starbucks.  How do you exactly respond?  Do we boycott as Christians …?


Yah.  That’s a tough one.  We’re fast coming to the time when it’s going to be ALL homosexuality ALL the time.  … The mark of the Beast … I personally don’t use Amazon … or shop at Home Depot. … You have to make your own choices.  … But there are better ways that you can do that, and that:  You should LEARN THE BIBLE forwards and backwards about dealing with this issue – and articulate the simple truth of it to the people around you.  … That’s much more important than keeping them from getting the 7 cents or whatever it is of profit that they get out of that cup of coffee from them.  It’s much more important if the people around you hear the simple truth of God, and don’t end up steering themselves off into that lifestyle in experimentation, OR another Christian next to you doesn’t cave in and start rejecting the truth of the Bible because everybody else … would be against him.  Right?  So that’s what I would think would be the more important thing. 


Q #3I just recently heard about what I think is a new Bible for … one world …called Chrislam do you know anything about that?


Chrislam is actually an attempt to merge Christianity and Islam by teaching the LIE that the God of the Bible is the god of the Koran.  … Rick Warren is one of the main champions of this.  I’m no fan of Rick Warren.  The people that are doing this – they have a good intention.  They want to be able to reach out to the Muslims.  So they think that if we can just show the Muslims that we worship the same God; then we can kind on bring them in and have fellowship with them, and we can teach them and show them what Christianity is really like.  But the problem is, can Christ have fellowship with Baal?  No.  You can’t have fellowship with people who worship Satan, and that’s who they’re worshipping.  In the Koran, several places in the Koran – one that I have memorized – it’s Sura 3:54.  Sura 3:54 says that Allah is the greatest of all deceivers, right?  Now who does the Bible say the greatest of all deceivers is?  It’s Satan.  Right?  The Bible says that God cannot lie.  He CANNOT lie – it’s not that He doesn’t want to – He CAN’T.  That’s not His nature.  So, the God of the Bible – that’s all you need to know.  … When people want to start to have conversations with me about Islam and about all these things that Mohammed did and all that, I don’t need to know any of that.  I only need to know one thing:  the God of their religion is Satan, AND they admit it right in the pages of their own book.  End of story.  So stay away from Chrislam … Tell everybody that you know given just that one simple little fact:  The Koran teaches that Allah is the greatest of all deceivers – and that’s Satan.  Simple.


Q #4: (Sandy Walker):  I just wondered if you could give me the Scriptures about homosexuality.



OK.  You got note paper?  Everybody should write this down.  You got something to write with?  I’ll give you a minute to do that.  … And I’m going to give you the ones that are explicitly about homosexuality.  (Things like I was talking about the flood and all that?  That’s a sort of a higher level of analysis – you can look into that on your own.)  But the Scriptures, to be able to sit down and be able to take somebody through the Bible very simply and quickly, alright,


Genesis 19 – the story of Sodom and Gomorrah; 

Leviticus 18:22; & Leviticus 20: 13 – homosexuality is an abomination.

Judges 19 – is a repeat of the theme of Sodom and Gomorrah – a civil war started related to homosexuality.


[The 10 or 11 most significant Bible passages regarding Homosexuality:]



Genesis 19

the story of Sodom and Gomorrah; 


Leviticus 18:22 &

Leviticus 20: 13 (repeat)

Homosexuality is an abomination.



Judges 19

A repeat of the theme of Sodom and Gomorrah.  – Benjamites try to rape the Levite; they rape the concubine instead and she dies.  Starts a civil war related to homosexual perversion.


2 Kings 23

The story of Josiah – He does what God told the Hebrews to do when they go into the promised land, and he finally does it completely.  He destroys the pagan alters; he breaks down the high places; he grinds them into dust and pours them into the brook Kindron; AND is says “He breaks down the houses of the sodomites [2 Kings 23:7] which were in the temple where the women wove hangings for the Asherah – the Asherah was, the Canaanite religions involved two things:  Child sacrifice & sexual perversion of every kind.  … The house of the sodomites was the place – it was at the temple – where the homosexual prostitutes were camped out.  And that’s where the women would go and weave hangings for the place where they would engage in these perversions.  And Josiah destroyed them.  It’s one of the reasons why he’s identified as the most righteous of the kings. 


Romans 1: 18-32

It introduces the whole teaching about the reprobate mind, and how it begins.  It starts with people who reject the truth of God, and their minds become dark, and there’s sort of a sequence of things that happen.  And in the end, they are then given over to a reprobate mind to do those things which are unseemly.  Homosexuality is the THE example of the reprobate mind. 


1 Timothy 1:9,10

We know that the law is not meant for a righteous person, but for the lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinful, for the unholy and irreverent, for those who kill their fathers and mothers, for murderers, 10 for the sexually immoral and homosexuals, for kidnappers,[a] liars, perjurers, and for whatever else is contrary to the sound teaching


1 Corinthians 6:9,11

The Ex-Gay Passage”:  (ESV) 9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous[a] will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, … 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.  [SuchWereSomeOfYou.org]



2 Peter 2:6

6 if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, amaking them an example of bwhat is going to happen to the ungodly;



Jude v7

7just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. 



Rev 11:8

(ESV)  8 and their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city that symbolically is called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was crucified. 

[= Homosexuality and Islam].



Q #5We have a pretty strong youth group that consists of mostly of  Traverse City Public School kids.  Can you give any sort of advice or what to do in their schools?  … In “Revolve” our youth group we have a leadership team who is required to do what we call a school takeover, putting ministry back into the schools. … What would you recommend that they do?


[Redeeming the Rainbow] … is my textbook for how to do that.  All the young people should read this.  … I have a chapter in here … it’s basically how to witness in a secular school context. … [Chapter 7] The Pro-Family Argument in non-religious terms.  … In terms of being able to talk to the homosexual issue in a way that’s going to help to sort of prepare the groundwork for them … what I’ve found is … the Holy Spirit gave me an approach.  And I was in Santa Rose California … and Santa Rose is a very very liberal area.  And there were a bunch of parents who were trying to stop “Diversity Day” from being “Diversity Day” changed into being “Diversity Week.”  … [Scott spoke at an evening assembly.]


The Holy Spirit gave me something … I said to them, we actually have some things in common.  … How many people here are environmentalists?  And most of them raised their hands.  And I said, well if you understand environmentalism, you can understand the pro-family position, because environmentalists actually have natural law presuppositions to it, premises.  … like ideas like an ecosystem.  The idea of an ecosystem is that there is a design.  Right?  And that if you keep the design, things work the way they are supposed to.  If you mess with the design, you know if you cut down half the trees in the rain forest, bad things are going to happen.  If you put poison in the tide pool, bad things are going to happen.  And the same thing with biodiversity.  Biodiversity is just how the balance of the species are.  Right? 


There’s a design to things.  And you have to keep the design.  And if you mess with the design, there’s going to be trouble.  And I said all I’m asking you to do is – and this is a great thing to say to liberals – is open your mind a little bit, and recognize that humanity has its own ecosystem called the natural family.  We have a design for what human beings are supposed to be.  Right?  Male and Female – this is the way are bodies are made.  Right?  That’s the design of things.  In fact Aristotle taught that … That’s why when I speak in secular colleges in Russia and other places is that, I don’t start with the Bible; I start with Aristotle.  Aristotle is the ultimate secular man.  And his philosophy called teleology said that there’s a purpose for everything, and that you can tell what the purpose for something is from how it’s designed and how it functions.  Right?  So the purpose of the eye is to see.  Right?  It’s designed to see – that’s what it does.  Right?  So if you look – Aristotle himself looked at human beings and said, obviously the purpose of human beings is to mate together as male and female and raise babies.  And then those families join together in communities, and that’s where civilization comes from.  That was what Aristotle taught.  That’s a simple logical presentation. 


So that’s how you can sort of bridge the gap, and introduce the idea of God’s design for family in secular terms in a way that they can understand it.  Because if you can understand what an ecosystem is, you can understand what a family is supposed to be.  Right?  And then you can go from there.  But that’s what I recommend is to do thatI recommend that you read this book [Redeeming the Rainbow] – you can download this book for free off of my website: www.DefendTheFamily.com   There’s a picture of the book over there on the right side.  You just click where it says “Read this book.”  And you can print out your own copy.  You can reed it online.  Everybody should read that.  And there are resources in here … I thought this was going to be my last book.  It may be my last book.  It may be my last book on the homosexual issue.  This was going to be my last contribution to the pro-family movement, which it obviously hasn’t been.  So I put all the best stuff that I ever learned in here.  All the best documents that I ever found are in here.  The best ideas that I had for dealing with different things, it’s all in here.  And you can get it for free off that.  If you want to know that, just read this.  And most of this book is not done in religious terms.  It’s done mostly in secular terms. 


But actually today I’m much stronger on the Bible than I am on the secular language because I think when we don’t do that, when we don’t use the Bible, we’re robbing ourselves of the greatest power that we have.  Right?  And don’t let people tell you that you need to secularize everything that you say in order to try to appeal to them, because basically you’re robbing yourself of power.  Don’t listen to that.  I know better than anybody.  I’ve followed that model [Secular arguments only] for a long time.  I’ve watched it lose consistently. 


Now it’s one thing to use a secular argument in order to initially establish common ground.  Or even as a Christian to be able to say, I’m a Christian, and most of what I want to talk to you about is based on the Bible.  But let me just show you one thing … in which the Bible truth is revealed in just simple logic.  Right?  And then you talk to them about the environment and all that. 








[We Skipped Questions 6-8 on the Show #8 video to make room for local info.

We will show these cut 24 minutes on a future show.  But we have included

ALL the notes / transcriptions here (including questions 6-8)  

for convenience and better readability.]






Q #6:  (Bill Wiesner) We were talking about the Traverse City Film Festival, …The homosexuality affirming movie “God Loves Uganda … misinformation regarding this video.  … Are there any volunteers here who would be willing to hand out Dr. Lively’s “Fact Sheet on Uganda”




What Bill is talking about is a film called “God Loves Uganda,” and this is one of numerous propaganda so-called documentaries that are trying to bash Uganda because of the bill they put forward – it never passed – that had the capital punishment provision.  I’m actually one of the subjects of that film that is going to be shown here [“God Loves Uganda” was shown in August 2013, the only ONE homosexuality affirming film; In 2014 Michael Moore is showing SIX homosexuality affirming films at the Traverse City Film Festival!] …I’m one of the people that they attack in there as one of the evangelicals that went to Uganda to kill the homosexuals, basically.  And so I’ve written a FACT SHEET ON UGANDA AND HOMOSEXUALITY … I was up until 4 o’clock this morning and I wrote that.  Because I just found out about the film only yesterday.  And then I’m going to give those to Bill and whoever else wants to go down there and just pass them out to people who are going in to watch the film.  And it tells a few facts, one of which I already told you about King Mwanga and the 22 martyrs.  And there are a couple of other facts in there that I think are very powerful, and that people ought to know.  And he’s right – it’s perfectly legal to stand out on a sidewalk and pass anything out to anybody.  It’s just whether or not you have the boldness to do it.   



Q #7I bought a newspaper recently with the article in the Traverse City paper about [?] and they just passed a law forbidding any preaching on their streets from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m.




[Dr. SL]  Yah.  I know why they did that.  One of my supporters and friends is the pastor of the Vieux Carre Assembly of God Church on the rue dauphine in the French Quarter [New Orleans], and that’s what they do.  As a matter of fact, I went down there to do that with them in last January [2013], but we ended up getting side-tracked and doing other things.  But that’s what that is.  It’s not Constitutional.  And it will probably be struck down.  But what they do is they just go out in the street, and they just witness on the street like EVERYBODY gets to do ANYWHERE.  So to have a speech restriction, especially when it is targeted at religious speech – ABSOLUTELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL!  Now there may come a time when the judges simply don’t care anymore – when the first amendment no longer has power.  But that’s not today. 


However that brings to mind though the other thing that I wanted to mention to you – The First Amendment Supremacy Clause.  You have an anti-discrimination policy based on sexual orientation here in Traverse City.  It was just adopted last year, right?  And wherever these things go in, the whole agenda follows.  … Oxford debate mix-up … long story short, I was in England but God pulled … you know, Romans 8:28, ALL things work together for good for those who love Him and are called according to His purposes.  He connected me up, and the pro-family leaders – there aren’t many of them there – but they pulled together a last minute meeting, and people came in from England, I mean from Scotland and Wales to England, and we had this meeting in a little town, in a little room above a funeral parlor.  And we were hashing out how we would be able to have an impact in England, which is worse off even than here.  And … you see the Brits are mostly Anglicans, and the Anglicans are amillennialists: they don’t believe in the Millennial Kingdom; they don’t believe in … you know the Second Coming may happen sometime in the future.  They’re not oriented toward this idea of The Last Days. 


So I’m speaking the way I’m speaking to you and they’re getting really frustratedAnd they’re going, “Yah, what can we do to actually fix this?”   And I came back to them and I said, you know, there’s only one way that you can actually possibly turn this around, and I don’t think it’s going to happen.  Because you have to be able to articulate a genuinely alternative world view from the bottom up, which is the Biblical Worldview, which means you have to come out and say that it’s necessary to discriminate against homosexuality.  Right?  And how many people in this room are willing to come out and say that I want there to be discrimination?  Right?  People can’t do that because we’re so conditioned – we’re in the model of the “civil rights model” that we’ve been boxed into.  And you can’t get out.  So I said, if it were possible, you could do that. 


And then, just this brainstorm – Holy Spirit brainstorm about the Magna Carta.  You see the Magna Carta is like our Bill of Rights.  Right?  The magna Carta is the foundation stone of modern human rights law.  It’s 1215 on the Fields of Runnymede the nobility forced the King to give in certain demands.  Right?  And that’s what the Magna Carta is: just a list of the demands that the king had to agree to.  Do you know what the first principle of the Magna Carta was?  The English Church must be free!  Right?  And so, what I was pointing out was that you’ve got in 2 years, in 2015, you’ve got the 800th year anniversary of the Magna Carta that’s going to be celebrated all over the world.  And you have – you as Christians – have the first principal of the Magna Carta to stand upon and to educate people about between now and then, and to point out that for 800 years the Magna Carta stood as a bulwark against tyranny UNTIL sexual orientation regulations came along!  And this brand new category of law that NEVER existed in the history of the world!  Right? 


I wrote a document called the RIGA DECLARATION ON RELIGIOUS FREEDOM, FAMILY VALUES AND HUMAN RIGHTS.  And in it there’s a survey and a listing of all the major human rights documents for 4000 years.  They’ve always protected either religious freedom or family values or both from the beginning.  They’ve never ever ever protected sodomy or homosexuality.  So it’s a brand new category of law that now is trumping the Magna Carta!  Right?  So, in fact we’re going back to England in September for two weeks.  We’re going to a two week retreat and seminar and try to bring people together and try to kick start something to get a Magna Carta Campaign going – to educate all the Christians in England about what the Magna Carta actually says.  Nobody knows what it says. Right?  They don’t know that that’s there.


But you know what, so I’m coming back on the plane, and I’m feeling jealous because the Brits have got the Magna Carta, and I’m thinking, what do we have?  What?  We’ve got the First Amendment.  Right?  Now it’s not as venerable – it’s not as old – it’s not the foundation stone.  But it’s actually more powerful because it’s got the law of our land in a way that the Magna Carta isn’t quite the law of the land for them.  And then, boom, the brainstorm is like, why couldn’t we educate our people the same way.  Because you know what?  The Bill of Rights – what’s the first principal of the Bill of Rights?  What’s … the 1st principal of the Bill of Rights – it says “Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...”  That’s the 1st principal of the Bill of Rights!  It’s the same principal, or pretty close, as the Magna Carta.  And the 2nd principal is “freedom of speech.”  And when you say First Amendment, everybody thinks “freedom of speech,” but actually that’s the 2nd principal; the 1st principal is [freedom of religion.]  …


But anyway, so and then it sort of dawned on me – that’s the answer to the sexual orientation regulations – a First Amendment Supremacy Clause, that you could put in as an amendment.  Wherever there’s a sexual orientation regulation, you just put in this amendment:  “In no circumstance shall sexual orientation regulations supercede the First Amendment rights of individuals, churches, and religious organizations to freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion.”  Right?  A simple one-sentence solution.  If you could get this – if you could get the city council of your city to put this in place – it would stop 90% of the problems that these things cause.  They would no longer be able to use it as a sword to attack Christians, but at the same time it would still protect them from the things they said they wanted protection from in the first place.  Right?  So that’s what this is about. 


So Matt and several others met the other night, and … we sort of launched kind of officially but, an ad hoc committee, which is “Family for the First Amendment,” with the goal of putting together a petition to amend the local sexual orientation regulations …[?] …  Right?  And now, so now we have an op[portunity] … You know what this does, what’s the best thing about this? – is it shifts the entire focus of the debate away from the civil rights movement and all this stuff where they control all the debate terms, right?, and all the arguments are, you know, on our side, it’s tough to argue?  And it brings it down to what’s really at stake. 


What’s really at stake here when these policies go in place?  They’re pitting the First Amendment, they’re pitting the sexual orientation regulations (SORs) against the First Amendment.  So if the average citizen is shown that that’s the real choice, then ask the question:  “What do you think is most important?  Do you think, is it the First Amendment, or is it the sexual orientation regulations?  And if you have to choose one or the other – which is what’s going on – the average person is going to say the First Amendment, of course they are!  Because that’s the most valuable, the most powerful, the most sacred of the secular values of our society.  And so that’s I think the genius of the Holy Spirit is built into that. 


So I’m going all over the country right now.  Right now we’ve got groups of people in Oklahoma, in Missouri, and in Nebraska that are all in various stages of doing something like this.  And now in Wisconsin.  So somebody eventually is going to get this thing passed.  And then World Net Daily (WND) just did a major story about the First Amendment Supremacy Clause to try to promote it across the whole rest of the country. 


So I think this is it.  This is … you see the last line of defense is the First Amendment.  They can take away everything else from us – and they have taken most of it awayIf they take away the First Amendment, if they take away our rights to say, “I believe the Bible and that homosexuality is wrong.  Right?  I believe marriage is between a man and a woman.  If we lose that right, we’ve lost everything.  Right?  There’s nothing left for us except to go to jail for breaking the law.  Either shut our mouths and dishonor the Lord, or speak the truth and get punished.  So … But thankfully we’re still in a time, and we’re still a culture in which the majority, the strong majority of people still revere the First Amendment.  … And plus, this gives us an opportunity – like pastors for example.  The pastors who don’t want to deal with this because it’s so uncomfortable, this is something that they can get behind.  Right?  Who couldn’t get behind the First Amendment from the pulpit?  Right?  The right for Christians basically just to speak the truth of the Bible: who can’t get behind that?  Right? 


So now we have a way to activate people.  We have something for everybody to say now.  When they come up and they say, “Why do you hate homosexuals?”  “I don’t hate homosexuals.  I just believe that everybody has a First Amendment right.  Don’t you believe that I have a First Amendment right to say what I believe?”  Right?  You know, everybody used to say, “I may not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to your [the] death the right to say it.”  When did that ever stop?  Right?  I mean, don’t you believe I should be able to have free speech?  Are you really think[ing] that we should get rid of the First Amendment – just because somebody created a brand new category of law called sexual orientation?  Right?  Now you’re on the … now you’re on the strong position.  Right?  Now you can put them on the defensive. 


You go into the city council’s office … or any other person, especially if there are people listening in.  See, you want other people – you want an audience when you do this.  Because what politician is going to say, “Well no, I think sexual orientation regulations (SORs) should trump the First Amendment.”  Who’s going to say that?  Nobody’s going to say that.  But if you put it in those terms, then you force the issue on them.  They’re going to have to change the subject.  They’re going to have to slam the door, pound the table, you know, whatever, which some of them are going to do.  But this deep down puts you in the [captain’s?] seat – you’re in the driver’s seat. 



Q #8[Pastor Peter Moon]:  Dr. Lively, I have a 2-fold question regarding homosexuality in our community.  Traverse City is listed by “gay” publications as being in the top ten most “gay”-lesbian friendly places to live.  And local clergy as well as church members and citizens – there’s a lot of people I believe that … are not … neutral – they’re opposed to this.  And in this city there aren’t that power-grabbing or controlling spirit if you will over our city commission, and it’s moved into various points of leadership. 


(1) What would you say to the Christian first of all who says,


“Listen you know when I come to church, I don’t want to hear politics, quote-unquote, or I don’t want to deal with this type of thing.  I just want to come and worship God. And you know, I’ve got a family to raise.  I’ve got to get back to work Monday and this and that.  How do we deal with this because the subject isn’t going away.  It’s moving forward, and some fatalists would say it’s going to happen anyway.  And other people would say, Well what can I do anyway?”


… I’m not an activist pastor per se, but in essence I am because I will go to the city meeting, or I’ll go to the school board meetings and speak my piece.  And I always address myself as a Christian Pastor from Traverse City, representing not only myself, but the families that I shepherd as well as, if it’s a school board meeting, some of my children, my own and our church’s children are in the public school system.  So therefore I feel the right and the call to speak against the immorality. 


(2)  And then … tell us also in your response, regarding now that laws are being written that aren’t only offensive, but they’re contrary to our Christian faith.  Not only are they contrary, but there’s a new demand to conform to ... – just address that – especially on the point of moving Christians into a new knowledge of where we need to be.



All the aspects of everything you just said comes down to teaching the Biblical World View.  Alright?  A person who comes to church and says … that all I want to do is just sit here and listen to some feel-good-message, or I don’t want to have to think about things that are uncomfortable, doesn’t have a Biblical World View.  And it’s your job as a pastor – it’s all of our jobs as Christians – to disciple the people around us.  That’s what the Great Commission is.  All of us are – that’s the one thing that Christians have in common all over the whole world.  It’s the Great Commission.  We’re all told – Jesus, the last thing Jesus said at the end of the book of Matthew:  “Go ye into all the world.  Right?  All power and authority has been given to me, first He says.  Go ye therefore into all the world, making disciples of every nation, baptizing them and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded.  Right?  That is … those are our marching orders!  Every Christian has those marching orders.  And especially pastors, especially Christian leaders.  And so we’re supposed to make disciples.  Disciples are supposed to be modeled after the Master.  We’re making disciples of Jesus Christ.  And Jesus Christ is a God of all spheres of life.  He’s the Lord of all.  He’s not just the Lord of the Sanctuary.  He’s the Lord over the city council.  He’s the state legislatures.  He’s the Lord over CBS and NBC.  You know, they reject Him.  They worship false gods.  But that’s the truth of things.  And a Biblical World View, helping bring somebody to a Biblical World View is the best thing you could do for them.  So they come to have an appreciation and understanding that the Word of God is a living word – that’s a living word – and that it is sufficient to provide the answer to every single question that you can have; that your thinking should begin and end with that word.  And that anytime you encounter something that is contradictory to it, you choose the truth over the lie.  That’s it. 


So if you have that as an emphasis in your church, right?  And if you understand it as a pastor or as a Christian leader, or friend of someone else who’s new in the faith, or growing in the faith, then it’s not hard to be able to articulate that to them.  And so when you hear them say, you know, I just don’t want to have to deal with this or that or the other thing, then you’re able to say, well, the Lord requires that of you.  He requires you to give a cup of water to a person that’s thirsty.  Right?  That we’re required to love our neighbor as we love ourself – it’s the 2nd Great Commandment.  And how can you say that you love your neighbor if you stand idly by, and you let your neighbor be enslaved by the world?  We have a responsibility to speak the truth – the missionary mindset.  I’ll close with this – we think we need to wrap up.  I’ll say that and then I’ll talk about getting on my newsletter. 


The missionary mindset:  every person under the Great Commission is expected to be a missionary.   Missionary doesn’t mean that you go off to a foreign country.  A Missionary is just someone who takes responsibility for a territory.  Right?  Sometimes the territory is your own family.  Sometimes it’s the geography of a place, like your neighborhood, or this section of the city, or you know, this part of a country.  Sometimes it’s a radio station audience, or a company that you work for, or something.  But that every single person is expected to take responsibility for some territory.  And in that territory, you’re to advance the Kingdom of Godwhatever you can do to advance the Kingdom of God.  And if you have that idea, if you embrace that as your personal mission, and as your personal sense of identity in Christ, then you’re never at a loss for what to do, because you’re always, you’re always attending to that task that you have, to be the steward of whatever that mission field is.  And you just let the Holy Spirit tell you what that mission – for a pastor, it’s probably the congregation – the shepherd of that flock.  Maybe it’s the whole city that he’s in.  Right?  Maybe that’s … just let the Holy Spirit tell you what your mission field is – and be a missionary in it. 


A missionary is conquering, right?    2nd Corinthians 10: 3-6:  “The weapons of our warfare are not carnal.  They’re not physical.  But they’re mighty in God for the pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to be obedient to Christ – and being willing and being ready to punish all disobedience when your when your obedience is complete.  That’s a package thing. That’s, you know what that is?  That’s the new testament version of Josiah’s mission to destroy all of the temples … You know what Josiah did in the physical, with breaking down the temple, breaking down the alters, and destroying and grinding it all up and pouring it into the brook Kindron is spiritually manifested in Christ in 2nd Corinthians 10:3-6.  Right?  So we do spiritually what He did physically.  Anyway.



Last thing – I don’t sell books; I sell subscriptions to my newsletter.  And this is how I survive.  I’m a missionary to the pro-family movement.  This is what I do.  I go all over the world.  I try to assist in any way that I can with any group of people who wants to stand up in any way.  And I am supported by subscriptions.  I put out a newsletter every month.  It’s a report of what I’m doing in the mission field.  Right?  It’s $25 for 1 year; it’s $40 for 2 years.  And my books are free.  If you subscribe for 1 year, you can have 1 book for free.  If you subscribe for 2 years, you can have 2 books for free.  And plus you get the newsletter.  And then we get to stay in touch.  Frankly, there’s not all that many people in the world today in our society the way things are going that are willing to stand alongside somebody like me.  Right?  So when I come, you know so why isn’t this church packed to the gills?  Why am I not at the big community church with the 3000 members?  Everybody’s afraid of this.  So for me it’s vitally important to be able to connect with people.  And once they’ve heard me, they say: Yes.  I want to support Dr. Lively.  I want to basically be one of the people that’s saying by subscribing that yes, I believe in your work.  So if you want to do that, the forms are out there on the table.  And if you want I’ll sign the books for you.  Anyway, thank you very much.  God Bless you.  And I’ll see you next time. 



Hosting Pastor Peter Moon ends the 3-day Debate / Conference with

three prescriptions requiring our action:



Just before we release you to go home I just want to tell you … the rest of it is this:  You know God has not given us a spirit of weakness or fear.  He’s given us a spirit.  Now you know a lot of churches the spirit is just a almost a stone monument somewhere – it doesn’t move; it doesn’t do anythingBut the Spirit of God – that Spirit is power, sound mind, self control.  I want to leave you with 3 things – this is prescription: 


(1)    Get your rock solid relationship with Jesus Christ right where it needs to be – so much so that you’re able to testify as to who you were – including any sin that God would call you away from right now.  Meaning if you have issues in your life that you say:  this disqualifies me from standing with Dr. Lively or going out into the public square.  After all, I’m guilty too.  Don’t be guilty anymore!  Satan has got the Church wrapped in bondage that it doesn’t belong around them. 


(2)    Number two:  Testify.  Don’t be silent – but in love: God’s form of love.  Our Savior is a soon coming conquering King.  He’s not a baby in a manger, and He’s not … whatever the world is portraying Him as.  He’s strong, and He’s a conqueror.


(3)    And number three Live your life in Christ in freedom and in victory.  Live your life!  Life out every day in Christ in freedom and victory.  And get a new attitude about Church.  Get a new attitude about your relationship with other believers.  And get a new attitude about your community, so that we can drive back with an assault mentality.  They’ve driven us to where we can’t move anymore.  Do we belong there?  I just leave you with that thought.

God Bless and keep you.  God make His face shine upon you and be gracious to you.  And may God give you His peace.  Amen.


End of Video Tape transcription.

[The local Northwest Michigan info for Scott Lively Show #8 begins here at the 47 minute mark.]






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